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There was no "illegal conversation with the Russians."
Your entire premise is flawed from the outset.
The FACT of the matter is that he was a paid consultant. There was nothing illegal about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador. None. Zilch. Nada.
This is about whether he lied to Trump/Pence. Nothing more, nothing less. And if he did...guess what?...that's not illegal.
This is about whether he lied to Trump/Pence ABOUT whether or not he spoke to the Russian ambassador about the sanctions that President Obama had that very day levied against Russia.
Flynn, at this point still a private citizen, did not have the authority to represent the United States in any official capacity. This conversation was illegal.
Not really sure what you mean Flynn was a paid consultant. That still has no bearing on if he officially could represent the United States.
There was no "illegal conversation with the Russians."
Your entire premise is flawed from the outset.
The FACT of the matter is that he was a paid consultant. There was nothing illegal about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador. None. Zilch. Nada.
This is about whether he lied to Trump/Pence. Nothing more, nothing less. And if he did...guess what?...that's not illegal.
The logan act has never been prosecuted, and many believe it would fail constitutional muster.
And if he was even guilty of that would depend on the statements made.
More fascinating to me?
The GOP and Trump knew that Pence had lied for weeks. And did nothing. We now know why the democrats were so pissed after the intelligence briefing a couple weeks ago.
The level of incompetent Party before country that this represents is mind boggling.
There was no "illegal conversation with the Russians."
Your entire premise is flawed from the outset.
The FACT of the matter is that he was a paid consultant. There was nothing illegal about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador. None. Zilch. Nada.
This is about whether he lied to Trump/Pence. Nothing more, nothing less. And if he did...guess what?...that's not illegal.
You're wrong.
The conversation with the Russian ambassador was specific. Flynn requested the ambassador pass on to Putin that if Putin did not retaliate against the sanctions Obama imposed, namely the expulsion of 35 members of the Russian diplomatic staff and the seizure of an estate that the Russians used for a meeting place, that Trump would rescind Obama's order once in the White House. Trump was President-elect at that time.
By then, Flynn knew he would become the National Security Advisor. This call was a betrayal of confidential material given only to the President and the President-elect and their selected staff members.
Furthermore, it could be considered a payback for Putin's help in interfering with our election on Trump's behalf. Both fall within the definitions of treasonous acts against the United States. All Putin had to do was keep the U.S. embassy in Moscow intact in return, and refrain from responding in kind to Obama's order.
Obama gave the order after there was definitive proof that the Russians interfered with our election. Expelling diplomats is a serious thing. It is the first step to the dissolution of formal relations between one country and another. It was not done impulsively nor taken lightly. Most of those who were expelled were Russian internet hackers working inside our borders.
Flynn was not a paid consultant at the time of the phone call. And whether paid or not, a secret promise of reward for a crime against the nation is still a felony. Look up the Logan Act to read all about it.
He only resigned because there is solid proof of his crime. If there was any doubt, he would not have resigned. His resignation does not protect him from criminal charges. And if Trump is called on to testify, he must or will be held in contempt of the law.
Flynn maintains he acted on his own with no orders from Trump. But knowing Flynn made the call makes Trump guilty of collusion if Trump is aware of what was said in the call. The same is true with Pence.
You may not take matters of national security seriously, but the Senators on the Security Committee do. It's their job, and the Committee has the power to have their findings brought to trial by Federal court.
This could mean a prison sentence for anyone found guilty, including the President. That's why President Ford gave Nixon a pardon after Nixon resigned. Nixon gave up the Presidency, but that did not clear him of his crime.
Last edited by banjomike; 02-14-2017 at 10:43 PM..
Kellyanne needs to go next. She is such a snake oil salesman. I don't believe a thing that comes out of her mouth... Spicer is another liar. He must think the american public is pretty stupid. (They are, after all they voted for Trump)
You're wrong.
The conversation with the Russian ambassador was specific. Flynn requested the ambassador pass on to Putin that if Putin did not retaliate against the sanctions Obama imposed, namely the expulsion of 35 members of the Russian diplomatic staff and the seizure of an estate that the Russians used for a meeting place, that Trump would rescind Obama's order once in the White House. Trump was President-elect at that time.
By then, Flynn knew he would become the National Security Advisor. This call was a betrayal of confidential material given only to the President and the President-elect and their selected staff members.
Furthermore, it could be considered a payback for Putin's help in interfering with our election on Trump's behalf. Both fall within the definitions of treasonous acts against the United States. All Putin had to do was keep the U.S. embassy in Moscow intact in return, and refrain from responding in kind to Obama's order.
Obama gave the order after there was definitive proof that the Russians interfered with our election. Expelling diplomats is a serious thing. It is the first step to the dissolution of formal relations between one country and another. It was not done impulsively nor taken lightly. Most of those who were expelled were Russian internet hackers working inside our borders.
Flynn was not a paid consultant at the time of the phone call. And whether paid or not, a secret promise of reward for a crime against the nation is still a felony. Look up the Logan Act to read all about it.
He only resigned because there is solid proof of his crime. If there was any doubt, he would not have resigned. His resignation does not protect him from criminal charges. And if Trump is called on to testify, he must or will be held in contempt of the law.
Flynn maintains he acted on his own with no orders from Trump. But knowing Flynn made the call makes Trump guilty of collusion if Trump is aware of what was said in the call. The same is true with Pence.
You may not take matters of national security seriously, but the Senators on the Security Committee do. It's their job, and the Committee has the power to have their findings brought to trial by Federal court.
This could mean a prison sentence for anyone found guilty, including the President. That's why President Ford gave Nixon a pardon after Nixon resigned. Nixon gave up the Presidency, but that did not clear him of his crime.
Nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act. The reason being it would most likely get struck down by the US Supreme as unconstitutional as it is in conflict with the US Constitution specifically the First Amendment. It would be a stretch to equal Treason (planning the overthrow of your own country) to trying to improve relations with another country in order to combat terrorism. You would think since Trump claims to have the smartest people working for him he would be aware of this and stick with Flynn instead of wussing out to media pressure and demanding his resignation. This just shows what kind of backbone Trump has. This fraud is only concerned about theatrics willing to jettison anyone that is bringing down his TV ratings as if he is still on a reality show.
If these people are so smart why would this person have a sensitive conversation on open unencrypted lines with a Russian diplomat promising a cooperative relationship between the US and Russia, especially during a time of Russian hysteria in the Establishment and CIA is approaching levels not seen since the McCarthy Red Scare era. You would think they would know that any effort to improve relations with Russia is going to be sabotaged by the CIA , Establishment and Media considering all the screaming and hollering that occurs when Trump says he wants to work with Russia in combating ISIS.
Nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act. The reason being it would most likely get struck down by the US Supreme as unconstitutional as it is in conflict with the US Constitution specifically the First Amendment. It would be a stretch to equal Treason (planning the overthrow of your own country) to trying to improve relations with another country in order to combat terrorism. You would think since Trump claims to have the smartest people working for him he would be aware of this and stick with Flynn instead of wussing out to media pressure and demanding his resignation. This just shows what kind of backbone Trump has. This fraud is only concerned about theatrics willing to jettison anyone that is bringing down his TV ratings as if he is still on a reality show.
If these people are so smart why would this person have a sensitive conversation on open unencrypted lines with a Russian diplomat promising a cooperative relationship between the US and Russia, especially during a time of Russian hysteria in the Establishment and CIA is approaching levels not seen since the McCarthy Red Scare era. You would think they would know that any effort to improve relations with Russia is going to be sabotaged by the CIA , Establishment and Media considering all the screaming and hollering that occurs when Trump says he wants to work with Russia in combating ISIS.
Because they aren't that smart?
Or, more likely, they thought they were sooooo smart that they could get away with it?
Think about it this way: they won an election no one thought that they would or could win.
The amount of hubris shown by this crowd is seemingly infinite.
Why wouldn't they think that they could have multiple conversations at will when they had already pulled off the greatest heist in American history?
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