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Trump and his people are definitely elites but they are most assuredly NOT the establishment. If you want to know who the establishment is, look at who is working against Trump: the majority of the Democrats, Republicans in the vein of Ryan, McConnell, McCain; the media, academia, most of the federal bureaucracy including the Intel organizations, big business, etc.
They are fighting trump because someone like him is never supposed to happen. A president should only ever be a member of the establishment. These are people hell-bent on preserving a world order developed after WWII that has benefitted them greatly and everyone else little or not at all. They refuse to acknowledge that the world changes and the norms and institutions created after WWII are no longer relevant to the current environment.
They have gone so far as to try and remanufacture the Red Scare to keep things like NATO and our alliance system relevant.
I agree that they're not part of the political establishment. I really do.
I was speaking more to the elite, high-earner, people who benefit from "trickle down" (nothing needs to trickle down to them) establishment.
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Because I can get along with people I don't agree with and I don't really need any extra friends at the moment.
If people are that unhappy, they need to do some serious self-examination.
Rich people kill themselves all the time, why?
In fact, people in wealthy countries, have a MUCH higher suicide rate than in third-world countries. Rates of depression and feelings of hopelessness are much higher in wealthy countries than in third-world countries.
I despise this notion that Americans have no right to be unhappy, since they "have it so good".
You don't seem to understand why people are unhappy. Maybe it is you who needs some self-examination.
I have heard so much about "Make America Great Again (TM)" over the past 6 months or so and I have got to ask:
What's was so horrible about it before Trump rolled into town with his Made in China hats and told you all that this place was a cesspool?
Come on. America has flaws, like any other country, but it's surely not a terrible country.
Have you see the places that refugees are trying to escape to come here?!?
Even the Rust Belt, angry voters who are upset about jobs have it better than refugees.
Even in Flint, where the water is polluted and dangerous, those people still have warm homes and a roof over their heads. And food to eat.
So, again, I ask you...
What is so terrible that must be made great and can only be done by a lying swindler like Trump?
America WAS great. We had values. We had security. We had jobs.
Then Obama happened. We lost allies. We lost jobs. We were forced to buy healthcare we couldn't afford. We watched insurance premiums double in AZ (I now pay $600 a month for health insurance). We watched as he backed terrorist organizations like BLM. We watched as he secretly sent hundreds of millions of dollars overseas to terrorist-supporting nations. We watched events like Benghazi unfold. We heard the lies. We saw the cold, dead, uncaring eyes of his. We watched racist attacks against whites unfold daily, with no mention or repercussions by the Oval Office. We watched as black thugs were shot for attacking police, then riots, all backed by the Oval Office. We saw terrorists get released in trade for a deserting Muslim-backer. We watched as terrorist attacks occurred on our streets in Boston, California, Florida, Texas, etc, and the toolbag had the balls to say that on his watch no terrorist attacks have occurred on US soil. We sat idle as he blamed guns for everything, and not the ISIS supporting idiots who used them in the attacks. We heard him proclaim "you didn't build that". We saw him hold the ridiculous "Beer Summit". We saw him support Clock Boy, while not paying attention to cops being killed in the line of duty. We saw his full support of the gender-neutral bathrooms, disgusted as we were. We watched his Democratic Party show their true RACIST colors in the leaked DNC emails. We watched as "shovel ready jobs" didn't come to fruition. We watched this funkin idiot spend more in 8 years than ALL OTHER PAST POTUS COMBINED. We watched as NOTHING was done to prevent job outsourcing. We watched as millions of illegals poured over the border with minimal effort to contain the problem. We sat quietly and watched as scandal after scandal broke (Fast & Furious, anyone?)! We watched our nation being torn apart racially, with ZERO effort from the White House to calm anyone down. We watched his wife (husband? Michael?) force schools to accept new lunch programs that, like Obamacare, ultimately failed. We watched as several large cities became "sanctuary cities", housing those that BREAK THE LAW AND CAUSE FINANCIAL STRAIN. We watched as nations like Iran threaten to nuke us, and we watched Obama give them power. We watched him grovel and bend like a twig to them. We watched as his daughters smoked joints and attended Jay-Z concerts, then watched as Michelle called Trump a "womanizer". Did she not listen to the lyrics of the Jay-Z song called "Pu**y" that night? Or his songs about drug use and prostitutes? And they have the nerve to say "Trumps words have shaken them to their very core"?????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?!?! We watched as he blasted Hillary in the 2012 primaries, calling her "absolutely unfit" for POTUS, then 4 years later he's kissing her saggy, old white arse and calling her the "most fit candidate ever for the job"?????? We watched as Obama put Putin in the backseat on "ignore" status. We watched as they spent more money on vacations than any other POTUS. I mean, flying to Chicago for a haircut??? During a recession??? Frickin idiot. We watched as they allowed **** trash like Lena Dunham to become some kind of spokesperson to represent their party? hahahahaha We watched as they lit the White House in rainbow colors to support gay rights, but nothing for our soldiers of LEOs. We watched the idiot accept a Nobel Peace Prize for NOTHING. We watched his regime launch more drone strikes than ever. We watched him deny Cuban refugees, and place 18 other travel restrictions on Muslim nations (all without protest I might add, you stupid liberal hypocrites). We watched riots unfold in the streets while he turned a blind eye and headed to the golf course. We watched as his IRS regime tapped phone calls and put Tea Party members on a terrorist list. We watched him literally give ammunition to ISIS. We watched him fail to act on Syria. We watched Black Panthers intimidate and block white voters from voting on Election Day, and NOTHING was done about it. Can you imagine if Trump had KKK (which are Democrats, btw, for all you history know-nothings) supporters blocking black voter? We watched his failure during the Crimea incident. Absolute failure. We watched as he was so rude to return Winston Churchill's bust back to England from the White House. I mean, did this bozo intend to damage relationships with our allies or what?! We watched as record numbers of Americans went on unemployment or completely dropped out of the workforce. We saw him and his Chicago Machine buddies got even more corrupt. Is that possible? Sure, under Obama it was! I could go on and on, but Im afraid Ill get carpal tunnel from typing so much.
But anyways, hate on Trump. Hate on him because he's a man of his words. I cant believe people are actually mad for a POTUS to ACT ON HIS PROMISES.
And if there's one thing I want you liberals to go to sleep tonight thinking about, its this: YOU CREATED THIS. YOU ARE THE REASON TRUMP IS IN OFFICE. Let that sink in tonight. We grew tired of your whining, your crying, your PC BS, your corruption, your failed policies, your blatant anti-Americanism, and your FAILURE candidates. Sleep tight, snowflakes.
I responded to you, but I was speaking more broadly about ideas which I believe are common, but wrong.
You responded to me yes while still dismissing the specific example used, 'McCarthyism'. & then present yet another video. What is your point?
My point is simple & is this: there is no ONE right way for people to live. There never has been, & jury's still out, although imho I don't think there ever will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshowz
...My sister isn't a libertarian.
Obviously I know nothing about your sister, you are the (perhaps recovering) libertarian I was referencing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowz
...I do not believe that the government is evil. I think that the government is amoral. Governments don't differentiate between good and evil, moral or immoral. They will do whatever it takes to preserve themselves, and further their interests.
I have more faith in "the people" than I have in "the government". But at the same time, I can see their flaws.
Your rationales continue to be internally inconsistent, it's no wonder you seem so conflicted at times, & deny &/or minimize the libertarian influence. You've said you're no longer a libertarian, is that right? I'm sure you've read this before however I suggest reading it again while you're still shedding the libertarian nonsense.
"...Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. ..."
Keep what is good, healthy & reality-based (it's well worth noting Mr. Thoreau is spot on re: his present day realities). & as you've most likely noticed, libertarianism is a very incomplete framework, it ignores or dismisses much much more than it could ever possibly address due to this insufficiency. Think of a literal frame, everything within the frame is seen, & literally the entire world just outside the framework is literally dismissed as being extraneous. Like the prisoners in Plato's Allegory of the Cave, mistaking shadows for reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowz
If you could imagine all of the people on this forum, living in the same house together, what do you think would happen? ...
First off, it would have to be a really really big house. Next off, I want my own room with a view & the ability to go out & experience the world outside my window All are welcome to join for a walk in the beautiful however imperfect world just outside.
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Next off, I want my own room with a view & the ability to go out & experience the world outside my window 
