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Yes, congratulations, you are free to mooch your healthcare off the backs of other people again.
Which is exactly what ObamaCareNot was too!
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Originally Posted by dechatelet
Most of the people on O'care are mooching off the backs of other people by getting subsidies -- and that doesn't even include the Medicaid expansion.
Not sure how anyone missed that either.
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Originally Posted by AlongTheI-5
What happens when these people get sick? Are they treated by someone anyway?
Not everyone runs to the doctor when they get sick to begin with. Avoid the doctor, end up healthier in the long run all too often.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Yes, they just walk into ER and have others pick up the bill.
You are thinking of illegal aliens. They use the emergency room at 3 times the rate of citizens and Medicaid (taxpayers) pick up the tab. We also cover maternity care for illegal aliens from conception to birth and then cover the anchor.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Back when we were a Christian nation people didn't complain about helping out the less fortunate.
We were never a Christian nation. Christians are still welcome to help pay the bills of the less fortunate, go for it!
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Originally Posted by tinytrump
The problem with sick is that it spreads- and it's more costly- when not nipped at the bud.
The man gets a cold or a bug-- no Ins... so doesn't go to the Dr. -now has pneumonia, now he is worse off and still does not go to the Dr- until collapses - now he is in critical care at some hospital- running in the millions. While in hospital -he loses his job - wife makes little, so gets food stamps- now we taxpayers paying more than a bottle of antibiotics and a DR visit--
oops- it was a contagious bug--and his kid sick too-- but kids goes to school on a bus --and happens to be the same bus your kid takes
I have lots of colds/bugs over 62 years and never collapsed and never went to the doctor. Your example is just silly!
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Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
Trump keeps another campaign promise.
Obamacare is going down in flames.
I'm thrilled by this. Fining people through their taxes was never right. Forcing people to buy health insurance was never right. Nothing about ObamaCareNot was ever right.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Charity is NOT something taken by force with a threat of throwing you in prison if you refuse to contribute to that charity. That is taxes, and taxing someone to fund YOUR charity is theft.
Great post!
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Originally Posted by 2mares
For those that don't get free medical what you do is set up payments and pay your bill. Imagine that, pay your bill, who would have thunk it.
Exactly. I knew someone whose insurance would not cover their experimental heart surgery, which did work out great, and her husband told me that hearing the price at that time $40,000, he told them they could never afford it. They told him, just like buying a house, we will take payments.
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Originally Posted by ottomobeale
I know a guy who got just such a bill. For 700,000+ dollars. This was after his insurance maxxed at 1 million. He lost everything.
I read that with medical bankruptcy, 75% had health insurance.
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Originally Posted by Rakin
LOL, that's exactly what Ocare allowed the freeloaders to do. My coverage went up 150% to over $1080 a month to pay for all those Moochers you refer.
I follow the blog of one of those that we subsidize, a full-time RVer, last month's budget insurance dropped $700 since they got ObamaCareNot which allowed them a $100 Red Lobster meal, pedicures/manicures/haircut & style............ I no longer subscribe to the blog.
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Originally Posted by kevinm
Same guy with Obamacare has a $12K deductible and his first bill for treatment would be $1500 so he doesn't go anyway because he can't pay that either because his premium is $800/month and rent is due.
Yes, people don't get this though.
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Originally Posted by daylux
People like you want separation of church and state unless it has to do with fleecing Christians $$ lol.
I have noticed this also. We have separation of church and state and the liberals cry all the time if there is even a hint of something in government having a religious connection yet now, when it comes to others footing their healthcare, well...........
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Originally Posted by pknopp
OK.....tell me how we are going to take care of the medical needs of the country with charity. I will listen.
Also, throw in how you are going to pay for bridges across major waterways on top of this.
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Originally Posted by 2mares
And yet the other 99.9% of people will have a manageable amount to pay. Those who pay insurance premiums (that btw increased after OBC) must pay their even higher deductibles on top of monthly premiums and the general 20%. Those without insurance (who are uninsured and pay a yearly fine for being uninsured) will set up payments.
IME the extreme cases such as the one of a guy you know are generally written off. Actually most insurance negotiate amounts much less than the original billing.
OTOH the poor people whom we help out thru OBC who pay no premiums get unlimited free health care.
While this was a boom for some, it was a tragedy for those with too much money to get on Medicaid and not enough to actually afford their co-pays and insurance cost.
ObamaCareNot turned out to be exactly what we knew it would be.
This was not about affordable healthcare to begin with and in the end, neither was it about affordable health insurance for EVERYONE.
I am glad to see this. It should never have been a tax.
However, we should also allow hospitals to turn away the sick even the gravely ill who are incapable of payment or have no health insurance. Tax payer money should only be used for the cleanup "afterwards"... cleanup... the dead leftover would be a health hazard for all.
Some will say it is Draconian... sure it is...
So is not making it mandatory that people are responsible for their health care costs. Businesses shouldn't be forced to render services that are unpaid... Health care should be no exception.. especially on Tax payer dime.
Yes, they just walk into ER and have others pick up the bill.
Nope - no ER is going to administer chemo or radiation if you have cancer. Hospitals can't absorb the cost of people who need care and there are far too few charities to meet the EXISTING need even with the ACA.
People will die. I was 23 when diagnosed with stage IV cancer - no family history of any kind of cancer period. 6 months of treatment cost $500,000, costing more than my entry-level take home income even with insurance, and I had a fairly cheap cancer.
It can happen to anyone, and enabling people to go around uninsured increases costs for all of us.
Same guy with Obamacare has a $12K deductible and his first bill for treatment would be $1500 so he doesn't go anyway because he can't pay that either because his premium is $800/month and rent is due.
I agree it is ridiculous! but that is the INS. companies doing- We holding them harmless in all of this- aren't we? I happened to work for an ins broker who got in BIG trouble for price rigging in 2005 - its all about sales and profits- they could care less if your new born is sick - they are too deep under our skin - 401s restate- wall street- etc OUT of control- and it is killing us
ACA doesn't address anything about healthcare. It is a series of laws to give pharma, healthcare providers and insurance companies control of our healthcare. All the regulations forces people to buy insurance and penalizes doctors for giving service to people who doesn't have coverage. And if you don't have insurance you are forced to pay the IRS which is a healthcare tax in case you do go through the emergence room they can extract more money from you if you don't have any money.
Well for me, I have a very low income but have a home, and an 800 credit score. I might not have money, but I would somehow have to pay the bill to retain these things that are valuable to me.
Nope - no ER is going to administer chemo or radiation if you have cancer.
However they will for all other injuries... and they far outweigh in numbers than those seeking cancer treatment for free. You can always pick and choose corner cases.. however a person seriously injured will not be turned away from the ER. Hospital will render care... with minimal impact cost wise.. but still an impact.
You only need to look at NJ's Automobile insurance situation to know how badly the uninsured are to the entire system of insurance if you pass the responsibility to those paying insured rather than make it those irresponsible non-payers pay a stiff penalty.
LOL, that's exactly what Ocare allowed the freeloaders to do. My coverage went up 150% to over $1080 a month to pay for all those Moochers you refer.
Kaiser reports that premiums increased an average of 100% between 2000-2010, meaning that half of the insured, experienced increases greater than 100% and did so for plans that were inferior to ACA compliant plans.
And how do your ACA compliant insurance benefits compare to what you had before the ACA?
It likely excluded people with preexisting conditions?
What was the annual/ lifetime cap on claims?
What was your out of pocket cap?
Did that out of pocket cap include the deductible?
Did your advancing age pre/ post ACA put you into a new age band?
Given your profession you are an independent contractor and thus likely in the Individual Plan market. Laws prevent you from participating in a large group plan such as one provided by employers. Large employers tend to pay premiums up front, once per year. The insurer is not burdened with collecting monthly payments from a company's employees, a percentage of whom would find it inconvenient to pay.
That upfront certainty of payment is worthy of a substantial discount. The lack of certainty associated with the Individual Plan Market is one of the many reasons why large group plans are more lucrative for insurers.
The number of health insurers have been declining for more than 25 years through mergers and acquisistions.
Health insurers have been exiting the Individual Plan Market for more than 25 years because it's not profitable.
Your state is no exception. It has been historically necessary for your state to intervene and make an insurer's ability to write auto or large group plans dependent on continuing to offer some semblance of Individual Plans in some of the state's broad geo rated markets. Since ACA, states just throw up their hands and blame big bad Obama instead of going to bat for their constituents, as they once did.
In the current enviornment, it is not possible for insurers to offer the same Individual Plan benefits for lower premiums.
The ACA is insurance legislation. It addresses what is insurance, who gets insurance and how it's paid for. It is not healthcare the root cause of premiums.
Some of the alternative approaches tout how prices will be posted and consumers should be able to shop for the best bang for the buck. So let's say Mary has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast Cancer and recommended treatment includes a radical mastectomy, radiation and chemotherapy, confirmed by a second opinion. Now despite the devastating diagnosis, Mary is compelled to price compare surgeons and hospitals and Cancer Treatment facilities.
No hospital is going to talk price unless they have a surgeon's directive. Surgeons need to have operating privledges at the hospital in order for the hospital to accept the directive. So now Mary is surgeon and hospital shopping. And the clock is ticking.
Who pays for multiple surgeon consults? Who pays for the ungodly overhead incurred by surgeon and hospitals to accommodate those who are surgeon and hospital shopping? Would not this overhead become a factor of the price of healthcare? Will the surgeon's / hospital's track record matter when it's all about the lowest price?
Does anyone really think hospital XYZ is going to run a special on radical mastectomies to attract more consumers?
And none of this has anything to do with lowering the price of healthcare which is dependent in part on people taking personal responsibility for their own health. When 75% of us are overweight/ obese and substantially more vulnerable to serious disease, it's no wonder we spend more on healthcare than any other country.
Same guy with Obamacare has a $12K deductible and his first bill for treatment would be $1500 so he doesn't go anyway because he can't pay that either because his premium is $800/month and rent is due.
^ fake news.
Who has a $12,000 deductible in a traditional ( Non HSA account) plan?
Your maximum out of pocket expense is capped and includes your deductible. In 2017, the maximum out of pocket is capped at $7150 and therefore no deductible exceeds this.
According to Kaiser, the average deductible in the Individual Plan market is about $3000/ household and about $1000/ household in the group plan market.
Perhaps you are confusing a family deductible/ maximum out of pocket with an individual deductible/ out of pocket. If so, perhaps you do not understand or may have been fed erroneous information with how individual deductibles/ out of pocket relates to family plans.
As an aside you cannot realistically compare pre and post ACA Plans because the benefits of more ACA compliant plans are richer than those that existed pre ACA.
I am a long time advocate for Universal Healthcare which is an equal right to healthcare, regardless of income. I am less invested in the delivery mechanism of insurance, Single Payer vs Private Pay vs a mix bag.
There's more than 70 years of special interest healthcare history that has led the US to right now. There is also an equally long history of the population avoiding personal responsibility for their own health. While smoking has substantially declined, 75% of the population has managed to become overweight/ obese.
In the Individual Plan Market smokers pay a higher premium because it's a self- induced healthcare risk.
The primary cause of Diabetes 2 is weight with an emphasis on where the extra weight is carried. 20 million have been diagnosed with Diabetes 2. It is estimated another 20 million are not diagnosed. The average annual cost to treat Diabetes is almost $10,000. Treating complications of Diabetes progresses to $ 6 figures per diagnosis, each year, for what is a mostly a preventable disease.
People need a financial incentive to take responsibility for their heal. Government could pick up the entire tab for healthcare of the 25% of the population with the generous waist measure in the healthy range and those who do not qualify would pay a substantial premium based on their waist measure. Apply this to Medicare and Medicaid, too.
No one would be forced to drop the lbs. All they have to do is pay a premium for their lifestyle choices.
The more people who take personal responsibility for their own health, the less healthcare will cost.
It will not be possible to reduce US healthcare costs unless and until the population takes responsibility for their own health and reduce health risks. Anything short of this is just changing what is insurance, who has insurance and how to pay for it.
But they could garnish the little bit of wages I use to pay to keep my home.
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