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That is your decision to make for yourself. No more than its my business if your marriage is worth saving or, if the young gal should give the baby up for adoption... We are not robots, We cannot determine any one's heart and control them -not even God does that !
The odd thing is that if truly religious and follow God's laws/intentions in that he gave Human's "Free Will" which in of itself..it's up to the human individual to make choices. both good or bad. However, the Zealots amongst them demand and force their WILL onto other fellow human beings!!
I'd question the validity of anyone to force THEIR OPINION/VIEWS onto another IF it doesn't directly AFFECT them personally. IF someone get personally harmed.. fine.. BUT to demand lawmakers to change laws o the books ( Roe vs Wade) codified by SCOTUS many decades ago.. IT's called forcing someone's individual beliefs onto another never mind demonizing the other for their choice.
I also want to call out lawmakers who try to push their views and force THEIR views by passing laws that a contravene previous decided laws. I love when it's MEN who force such viewpoints onto women. Women of OLD were once considered property, had no RIGHTS.. couldn't vote much less! Todays these same guys worry about Islamic laws getting into American laws.. Yet here they are trying to CONTROL women much like many Islamic States do. I am just appalled in general. What's it to a poster or a politician who has the gaul to demonize a women for any lawful decision! It's 2017 NOT 1876..
WHAT??? I have a large group of friends who are atheist pro-life advocates!! They are pro-life because they believe that life is a foundational right, it has nothing to do with religion!
I have to agree with this. Life is perhaps more important if you're an atheist. Someone who believes in God can at least think that the life they are taking is going to heaven. If you're an atheist then life is the winning the ultimate lottery in the universe. Do we have the right to take that away from someone else?
This argument really boils down to what a life is worth? If life only has value when it's convenient for me then what is life really worth?
The odd thing is that if truly religious and follow God's laws/intentions in that he gave Human's "Free Will" which in of itself..it's up to the human individual to make choices. both good or bad. However, the Zealots amongst them demand and force their WILL onto other fellow human beings!!
I'd question the validity of anyone to force THEIR OPINION/VIEWS onto another IF it doesn't directly AFFECT them personally. IF someone get personally harmed.. fine.. BUT to demand lawmakers to change laws o the books ( Roe vs Wade) codified by SCOTUS many decades ago.. IT's called forcing someone's individual beliefs onto another never mind demonizing the other for their choice.
I also want to call out lawmakers who try to push their views and force THEIR views by passing laws that a contravene previous decided laws. I love when it's MEN who force such viewpoints onto women. Women of OLD were once considered property, had no RIGHTS.. couldn't vote much less! Todays these same guys worry about Islamic laws getting into American laws.. Yet here they are trying to CONTROL women much like many Islamic States do. I am just appalled in general. What's it to a poster or a politician who has the gaul to demonize a women for any lawful decision! It's 2017 NOT 1876..
Exactly. I went to Catholic schools and this is what we were taught. God gave us free will to think on our own.
You are right. As a former pro-choice believer, I bought into this kind of rhetoric that was used to brainwash women into believing that that their unborn progeny have no value other than that which the pregnant woman places on it.
The issue of abortion is not about convenience or women's rights or any of that nonsense. It is about whether a human life has value or not. The progressives have convinced women that the value of a human life is a relative to how a pregnant woman "feels" about the unborn human.
If the woman places value on the unborn human she has created, then it is a baby. If a woman places no value on the unborn human she has created, then it has no value, it is a glob of cells or a tumor or an obstacle to be rid of. Life either has value or it doesn't. It doesn't have value if I decide it does and not if you decide it doesn't. That makes no sense.
Moral relevance is what Abortion is all about.
Yes. It's simple. Does life have value or doesn't it? If it does then all lives matter. If it doesn't then no lives matter. Life doesn't gain/lose value based on what I think about someone else's life. Individual thought on the matter doesn't change the value of life.
There is no denying that each and every one of us started as an embryo and that embryo was us. The embryos and fetuses that are killed each day in this country are particular people who will never get the chance to decide what they believe about their own lives because someone else decided they were garbage to be flushed before they ever took their first breath.
I find it interesting that we have no trouble declaring suicide wrong when the life the person is choosing to end is their own yet it's ok to take the life of another because it's not convenient for you to let them live.
The odd thing is that if truly religious and follow God's laws/intentions in that he gave Human's "Free Will" which in of itself..it's up to the human individual to make choices. both good or bad. However, the Zealots amongst them demand and force their WILL onto other fellow human beings!!
I'd question the validity of anyone to force THEIR OPINION/VIEWS onto another IF it doesn't directly AFFECT them personally. IF someone get personally harmed.. fine.. BUT to demand lawmakers to change laws o the books ( Roe vs Wade) codified by SCOTUS many decades ago.. IT's called forcing someone's individual beliefs onto another never mind demonizing the other for their choice.
I also want to call out lawmakers who try to push their views and force THEIR views by passing laws that a contravene previous decided laws. I love when it's MEN who force such viewpoints onto women. Women of OLD were once considered property, had no RIGHTS.. couldn't vote much less! Todays these same guys worry about Islamic laws getting into American laws.. Yet here they are trying to CONTROL women much like many Islamic States do. I am just appalled in general. What's it to a poster or a politician who has the gaul to demonize a women for any lawful decision! It's 2017 NOT 1876..
By your logic we should not lock up murderers because they are simply exercising free will. Aren't we forcing our will on them by locking them up? How about rapists? Shouldn't they have free will?
We force our will on others when others would harm other people. Heck we lock people up if they hurt animals. But we're supposed to just sit by and allow human beings in their most vulnerable state to be killed and chalk it up to free will?
I have to agree with this. Life is perhaps more important if you're an atheist. Someone who believes in God can at least think that the life they are taking is going to heaven. If you're an atheist then life is the winning the ultimate lottery in the universe. Do we have the right to take that away from someone else?
This argument really boils down to what a life is worth? If life only has value when it's convenient for me then what is life really worth?
Why don't you guys ask what life is worth to the hundreds of thousands waiting to be adopted. They want a home and to be loved. Many are never adopted and are sent out into the world when they are 18. Why do you want to bring more unwanted kids into the world. This is what I have a problem with. I get it that many don't like abortion but be as compassionate for those kids who are already born looking for a family. They could have easily been aborted but they weren't. Yet once they are born they are forgotten about.
Why don't you guys ask what life is worth to the hundreds of thousands waiting to be adopted. They want a home and to be loved. Many are never adopted and are sent out into the world when they are 18. Why do you want to bring more unwanted kids into the world. This is what I have a problem with. I get it that many don't like abortion but be as compassionate for those kids who are already born looking for a family. They could have easily been aborted but they weren't. Yet once they are born they are forgotten about.
At least those waiting for adoption got to live. And I agree with you. Ask the person whose life it is what it is worth to THEM. Don't decide what their life is worth for them. That's not our right. Only the person who is living the life can decide what it is worth.
Given there is a shortage of babies being put up for adoption your argument is built in sand. Yes older children enter the system for a variety of reasons and yes they are harder to adopt because adoptive parents need the skills to deal with their issues not because there is a shortage of families that want to adopt. Wanting to adopt a child and having the skill set needed to deal with the issues of an older child in the system are two entirely different things. I could never do it. I don't have what it takes. I learned that raising my step sons. The 4 year old was a breeze compared to his 9 year old brother who came with issues few people are prepared to deal with. But we are talking about babies here. Babies who most likely would be adopted. Those babies have no impact on the older kids in the system because they aren't in the system because there is a shortage of families. They're in the system because there is a shortage of people with the skills to deal with their issues.
If I'm healthy enough I'd like to foster when I retire but I know I don't have what older kids need so I'd be fostering younger children. It's nice to think that all they need is love but that's way over simplifying things. As a teacher I see kids all the time with issues I'm just not prepared to deal with. I feel for them and I try to help as much as I can but I know it would do them no good for me to adopt them because they need something I don't have to give.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 03-31-2017 at 09:52 PM..
Given there is a shortage of babies being put up for adoption your argument is built in sand. Yes older children enter the system for a variety of reasons and yes they are harder to adopt because adoptive parents need the skills to deal with their issues not because there is a shortage of families that want to adopt. Wanting to adopt a child and having the skill set needed to deal with the issues of an older child in the system are two entirely different things. I could never do it. I don't have what it takes. I learned that raising my step sons. The 4 year old was a breeze compared to his 9 year old brother who came with issues few people are prepared to deal with.
You just made my point. Everyone wants the babies. No one wants the older children who have been there since birth. And they don't all have issues. I volunteered many times at a catholic orphanage and it broke my heart. The older kids were so excited when someone came to visit. We played games, read together and listened to music. They were wonderful and engaging kids. They were desperate for attention and love. They were physically alive but emotionally they weren't. They longed for a family. So until we solve the problem with kids waiting to be adopted we shouldn't bring anymore unwanted kids into the world.
Yeah it's not like we have adoption. foster parents, food stamps, welfare or anything to take care of them once they're here if family isn't willing to do so. And then there are churches. Only the government gives more to the poor than churches. I pass a church regularly that runs a crisis pregnancy program where they house women and children until they can get on their feet. My old church served as a homeless shelter one week out of 12 in a rotating basis with 11 other churches and ran a food pantry for the poor. I'm currently searching for a new church because I moved. I'm looking for one that has an outreach program for the community I can get involved in.
There are many people who care and help. The left simply chooses not to see this.
I agree that many churches do a lot to help the poor. I attend such a church.
However, you are overlooking the fact that there are some on the right who would slash the government programs you have mentioned to the bone.
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Yes. It's simple. Does life have value or doesn't it? If it does then all lives matter. If it doesn't then no lives matter. Life doesn't gain/lose value based on what I think about someone else's life. Individual thought on the matter doesn't change the value of life. 
