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1. The Trump supporters have successfully changed the narrative, so that the facts will fit their side. The original claim was (and is) that Russia interfered with our election, which has been proven, and re-proven. It is fact that they Affected the election, it cannot be proven if they affected the outcome, as we'll never know what would have happened if they did not interfere. When Trump and his supporters could not disprove this original claim (that Russia interfered) they changed the narrative to say say the charge was Trump Collusion, because that is easier to deny, harder to prove.
2. While it still has not been proven that Trump colluded with Russia to affect the election, it certainly has not been disproven. It has been proven that there were (beyond the norm) communications.
It has been proven that members of his staff lied about it (Flynn is one, not the only)
It has been proven that Trump lied about not having any financial dealings whatsoever with Russia
--so to Point #2, there is still no smoking gun, but there is so much circumstantial evidence that he is up to his eyeballs that it's hard to honestly conclude he is not. Let me be clear, in the US, you are innocent until proven guilty, so by the law, he is innocent. But if you hold him to the same standards that Hillary was held to with Benghazi, or the email fake-scandal, then he is far more guilty than she was. And if you hold her to the standard of the US law, then she is the same as him, innocent.
What I can't understand is why the Trump and his supporters are STILL so obsessed with the election. We voted, he won by the rules in place, it's over. The only reason they are still going on and on is either:
1. They know he cheated his way in, or
B. They know in their hearts that Hillary was the better candidate, and they feel they have to justify it.
Anyway, Hillary's supporters have mostly gotten past it, why can't Trump and his supporters?
1. The Trump supporters have successfully changed the narrative, so that the facts will fit their side. The original claim was (and is) that Russia interfered with our election, which has been proven, and re-proven. It is fact that they Affected the election, it cannot be proven if they affected the outcome, as we'll never know what would have happened if they did not interfere. When Trump and his supporters could not disprove this original claim (that Russia interfered) they changed the narrative to say say the charge was Trump Collusion, because that is easier to deny, harder to prove.
2. While it still has not been proven that Trump colluded with Russia to affect the election, it certainly has not been disproven. It has been proven that there were (beyond the norm) communications.
It has been proven that members of his staff lied about it (Flynn is one, not the only)
It has been proven that Trump lied about not having any financial dealings whatsoever with Russia
--so to Point #2, there is still no smoking gun, but there is so much circumstantial evidence that he is up to his eyeballs that it's hard to honestly conclude he is not. Let me be clear, in the US, you are innocent until proven guilty, so by the law, he is innocent. But if you hold him to the same standards that Hillary was held to with Benghazi, or the email fake-scandal, then he is far more guilty than she was. And if you hold her to the standard of the US law, then she is the same as him, innocent.
What I can't understand is why the Trump and his supporters are STILL so obsessed with the election. We voted, he won by the rules in place, it's over. The only reason they are still going on and on is either:
1. They know he cheated his way in, or
B. They know in their hearts that Hillary was the better candidate, and they feel they have to justify it.
Anyway, Hillary's supporters have mostly gotten past it, why can't Trump and his supporters?
1. The Trump supporters have successfully changed the narrative, so that the facts will fit their side. The original claim was (and is) that Russia interfered with our election, which has been proven, and re-proven. It is fact that they Affected the election, it cannot be proven if they affected the outcome, as we'll never know what would have happened if they did not interfere. When Trump and his supporters could not disprove this original claim (that Russia interfered) they changed the narrative to say say the charge was Trump Collusion, because that is easier to deny, harder to prove.
2. While it still has not been proven that Trump colluded with Russia to affect the election, it certainly has not been disproven. It has been proven that there were (beyond the norm) communications.
It has been proven that members of his staff lied about it (Flynn is one, not the only)
It has been proven that Trump lied about not having any financial dealings whatsoever with Russia
--so to Point #2, there is still no smoking gun, but there is so much circumstantial evidence that he is up to his eyeballs that it's hard to honestly conclude he is not. Let me be clear, in the US, you are innocent until proven guilty, so by the law, he is innocent. But if you hold him to the same standards that Hillary was held to with Benghazi, or the email fake-scandal, then he is far more guilty than she was. And if you hold her to the standard of the US law, then she is the same as him, innocent.
What I can't understand is why the Trump and his supporters are STILL so obsessed with the election. We voted, he won by the rules in place, it's over. The only reason they are still going on and on is either:
1. They know he cheated his way in, or
B. They know in their hearts that Hillary was the better candidate, and they feel they have to justify it.
Anyway, Hillary's supporters have mostly gotten past it, why can't Trump and his supporters?
Tell that to the media who are still reporting "Trump-Russia" 24/7. Russia "interfering" with out election is no different than Barack interfering with Israel's election or pimping for Macron in France.
I watched 3 hours of that hearing yesterday and it is disheartening to hear all the evidence about Russia, Flynn, and to-date, unnamed Trump associates and their dealings. What is disheartening is that they don't care about the Russian toolkit and their efforts at political and citizen divide that was very successful. Don't worry, though they will be back in 2018 and 2020. Just hope that the Russians pick YOUR candidate to favor, though, right?
Anyway, Myghost is spot on about Trump supporters and Trump himself changing the narrative. If you don't see it, you are blindly partisan.
I do not think that Trump colluded with Russia -- and while I do think there are a whole bunch of people that wish there was some evidence of this...it just won't happen.
What I think did happen -- definite inappropriate contact with some of Trump staff.
AND Russia definitely tampering with election process through hacking.
Do I think it caused the Clinton loss -- I don't think it helped and if you had to guess you would assume that it had some negative effect but that the biggest issue was the DNC leaving out those unemployed workers that Trump promised all kinds of jobs to. You could probably give a reasonable argument that if Clinton didn't have to spend time defending herself against the e-mails -- that maybe they would have been organized on the front of shaking hands and going after those voters...but at that point -- it is all just Monday morning quarterbacking which is just that...nothing more.
AND -- I do think that it is important for these hearings and for Trump and staff to cooperate completely. If they did nothing wrong -- they can't find anything. AND we need to have a clear understanding how and if and when and where the Russians got involved. It's for the integrity of our voting process.
Clapper's sworn testimony before the Senate yesterday completely contradicts the Hannity claims.
Clapper testified previously that he was unaware of any evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Hannity and panel of propagandists spun that into saying that Clapper claimed that there was no collaboration.
Yesterday, Clapper testified that there was evidence of collusion, but he wasn't privy to it at the time of his original testimony. The evidence was withheld from him by James Comey and the FBI.
At this point, Sean Hannity and his merry band of spinmeisters are just banging the Faux News drum to keep the Trumpettes amused and distracted.
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Clapper: Still no evidence of Trump collusion with Russia
