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And this is where we have arrived. U.S. citizens are not only comfortable with the U.S. government interfering in the sovereign elections of other countries (a long held view) but now we have become comfortable with foreign governments interfering with and assisting in the determination of U.S. elections.
We have jettisoned the concept of citizen self-determination and have replaced it with international Oligarchical rule. And apparently a significant part of the population is either explicitly it implicitly quite comfortable with this. With just a bit more of a push we right there in Orwell's 1984.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaiChiMaster
This is not a right wing issue. People in the other side demonstrated similar behavior when they opted to ignore the actions of the Clintons' (plural).
At last some rational discussion. Many people just threw up their hands. It was less a choice but a surrender. The DNC picked their candidate, the people didn't and could you have found a less worthy bunch than what was foisted upon us in the GOP debates?
A large number of people are like my wife. She wishes she could just close her eyes and it would all go away. Her entire life she voted (R) for president. She did not this time. She has wanted a female to support forever but could not bring herself to support Hillary. (She defaulted and voted Stein)
Hillary did not lose because of Trump or Russia. She lost because there was a large enough group of people that were never going to vote Trump but simply could not pull the lever for Hillary. The GOP lost control of their process and the (D)'s threw theirs away.
Neither side has learned a thing. This entire thread I've asked who it is that I can support. The only answer is "I don't know" or "Trump bad". It's a race to the bottom. The "winner" is the one that loses the least amount of support.
Trump Jr. exhibited very poor judgement by taking the meeting.
I saw a clip of the Hannity interview. Poor Donald Jr. was just 'caught up in the excitement of the election'. He just reacted. Wait a minute -- there was an exchange of e-mails, a process of setting up a meeting time, in the same building as Trump Sr.'s office......etc. This was not just an impulse reaction. This was a thought out plan.
There are two potential conclusions -- Donald Jr. is lying - he knew it was devious but he did it anyways or Donald Jr. exhibited poor judgement, inability to understand the scope of running for President and what that means, the potential for controversey sleeping with the Russians to oust Clinton, the encouraging a foreign country to engage in willful tampering of the election, etc.......
This isn't a good look either way for him -- either he is crafty, devious and willing to engage in questionable conduct to achieve a goal -- or he's not smart enough to know when something is perhaps not the right thing to do in that moment.
I don't believe for the moment he is that naive or ignorant. I suspect he showed at least one person if not Trump and his whole team -- the initial invitiation. I suspect they all agreed that Trump Jr. could go ahead and see what's up but to remember -- wink wink, nudge, nudge -- Trump Sr. and his key advisers know nothing about this.
Whatever you want to think -- it's not good.
And then when the whole Russian collusion and questionable contact with Trump's campaign came up, I don't believe for one second Trump Jr. and Kushner didn't mention to ANYBODY this meeting.
They are trying to spin this as some - -oh gee golly we never knew it looks bad. The lawyer is saying 'nothing illegal happened' and that's all that matters.
Yeah if it was no big deal, legal and nothing to fuss about it -- why did it take 6 months to reveal.
Nope -- this stinks. It shows lack of character, integrity and really poor judgement on the Jr., the family and the administration.
This is consistent with the character of Trump and his family that the critics and those of us who opposed Trump for years. It own't matter to the base.
Trump will say -- nobody did anything wrong criminally and that's all that matters. Because to Trump -- it isn't about character, dignity, respect...it's doing what you can get away with to better yourself. He would gladly sell his soul to better his position. That's not always a good thing.
At last some rational discussion. Many people just threw up their hands. It was less a choice but a surrender. The DNC picked their candidate, the people didn't and could you have found a less worthy bunch than what was foisted upon us in the GOP debates?
A large number of people are like my wife. She wishes she could just close her eyes and it would all go away. Her entire life she vote (R) for president. She did not this time. She has wanted a female to support forever but could not bring herself to support Hillary. (She defaulted and voted Stein)
Hillary did not lose because of Trump or Russia. She lost because there was a large enough group of people that were never going to vote Trump but simply could not pull the lever for Hillary. The GOP lost control of their process and the (D)'s threw theirs away.
Neither side has learned a thing. This entire thread I've asked who it is that I can support. The only answer is "I don't know" or "Trump bad". It's a race to the bottom. The "winner" is the one that loses the least amount of support.
Neither political party has any interest in the welfare of the people or the Republic. They only wish to get re-elected that they can continue to enrich themselves as the Government. Governments have become their own industry with $trillion budgets. They will use any means at their disposal to maintain control over these budgets including colluding with despots, dictators, drug lords and thugs wherever they may be. Apparently more and more citizens are becoming comfortable with the situation.
Watched FOX last night. They did not see anything wrong with the collusion, and instead accused the media for 'attacking Trump's family'. Its like saying the courts attacked Ted Bundy.
Well not quite all of Fox News, Hannity, Carlson and some of the panel shows but not the respected hosts like Chris Matthews. Hannity and his cohorts live in a different world, obviously he has some rabid followers.
It's not about who we had to choose from. This thread is about working with Russia to get dirt on a candidate. How and the hell is that OK in 2017? Trump Jr messed up and should be charged.
Neither political party has any interest in the welfare of the people or the Republic. They only wish to get re-elected that they can continue to enrich themselves as the Government. Governments have become their own industry with $trillion budgets. They will use any means at their disposal to maintain control over these budgets including colluding with despots, dictators, drug lords and thugs wherever they may be. Apparently more and more citizens are becoming comfortable with the situation.
Neither political party has any interest in the welfare of the people or the Republic. They only wish to get re-elected that they can continue to enrich themselves as the Government. Governments have become their own industry with $trillion budgets. They will use any means at their disposal to maintain control over these budgets including colluding with despots, dictators, drug lords and thugs wherever they may be. Apparently more and more citizens are becoming comfortable with the situation.
Watched FOX last night. They did not see anything wrong with the collusion, and instead accused the media for 'attacking Trump's family'. Its like saying the courts attacked Ted Bundy.
Hannity and guys like Rush are paid to spin.
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