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I'm in my 20s, and in many classes in high school, after every test, scores were publicly posted by name, top scorer to lowest.
I remember one teacher who didn't do that, but would instead ask the three top scorers to stand in front of the class, and then also asked the 3 lowest scorers to come up to the front of the class, but then made them sit on the ground around the top scorers' feet.
Also, grades were deflated if too many people would have gotten a good grade. I remember one class where I had an 87%, but ended up with a C grade because of the curve.
There were several suicide attempts in my school because of the pressure, and lots of drug use in order to be able to handle the constant necessary all-nighters to complete all the HW, projects, and studying. I've seen plenty of classmates break down from the pressure.
I have no idea what typical public schools are like. And this was ~10 years ago (damn, I feel old saying that ), so I can see how things may have changed since then.
"College student grades in the United States have been rising steadily since the 1960s. In 1969, 7 percent of undergraduates had grades of A- or higher in contrast to 41 percent now. Similarly, grades of C or less have dropped from 25 percent to 5 percent."
That scenario is actually common today - in regards to ohhwanderlust's comment - in high performing public schools.
It is also common in gifted cohorts. I was a TAG student from K-12 and the level of competition was fierce. I remember being stressed and crying about potentially getting a B in 3rd grade (I didn't get a B) and even in 1st grade I remember being anxious about spelling words that started with a "u" like "unintelligent."
Most average schools and/or average students in public and private schools don't have that sort of atmosphere. I actually decided to take more "vocational" classes starting in 11th grade and due to being ahead in credits, I only went to school half the day my senior year as I wanted a break and time to decompress before college.
But honestly, most students are not that into getting good grades. I was and many of my friends were because, I admit, we were nuts lol. Mostly because we were VERY competitive with each other. We always thought that Bs and even A-'s were Fs in our minds lol. I do think we were fortunate to be in a TAG cohort in "the ghetto" (FWIW we had a very diverse cohort, where I lived whites and Asians and Latinos and blacks live in the ghetto). Our parents really didn't pressure us like wealthier parents are apt to do. They were too busy working and being tired from working hard jobs. Even my Asian friends didn't have stereotypical "tiger" parents. We were pushed moreso by our teachers and each other. IMO high performing/truly gifted kids really should be pegged as "special needs" and have some additional support in regards to counseling and family assistance since today many parents push kids who are already prone to being competitive academically to be more competitive and it is not healthy from a psychological standpoint. They already pressure each other and get enough pressure from school to where home life should be more of a refuge IMO.
No, scores were gradually declining from the mid-1980s on. What has changed, and the College Board, the Gates and Broad Foundations, among others, ignore it or demonize anyone who brings it up, is that the pool of test takers has expanded almost exponentially. Not all of those kids should be taking the SAT. My (former) school system, the second worst in the state of Maryland on all measures, requires every 11th grader to take the SAT (school system pays). That includes students in both mainstream and self-contained SPED.
What do you think the aggregate average looks like?
Everybody takes it at my local high school. And the district pays. Can't figure out why.
The school has bottom of the barrel ratings from every entity that grades schools in the state.
This tired old trope again. My kids have always been aware, as have their classmates, about who is achieving and who is not. My kids take honors and AP courses and most of the their friends do too. While they don't judge those kids, they are KEENLY aware of who is 'smart' and who is not and the school makes that pretty clear too. But then again my wife and I have talked about college to them and for them since they were born. Expectation is probably the single most important driver in how kids approach their education.
On the bold just wanted to note that I don't believe that at all. I think it depends on the person/kid and their personality and learning style.
As stated, I was a TAG kid. I've been back to school over the past 6 years and I've never gotten any grade lower than an A because I'm that type of person. Anything other than an A is unacceptable in my mind.
Other people/kids don't have the same mindset as I do. I actually have VERY high expectations for my own kids, but I have a high schooler who is fine with getting Cs. A C to me is an F. But he is fine with a C. As long as he passes he's okay. It REALLY irks me as a parent he is like this. I've also spoken about college since before he was born and he has had a lot of advantages over kids without a steady homelife like he has and who are poorer than our family. He has always gone to great schools, he has always tested above average and he's even taken the ACT and scored above average on that test when he was a 7th grader, but he has a C average because he doesn't care about getting Cs as long as he passes. He is also considered to be "gifted" based on standardized tests and in "creativity." I figure he is just too creative. He cares more about artsy things than he does academics and getting good grades.
Parents can't make kids change their entire personalities. It is interesting to me that I was a TAG student as was my older brother. One of my younger brothers was a D/F student. We were raised in the same home and had the same expectations. The younger one actually dropped out of high school and went and got his GED because he just didn't like school and didn't care about getting good grades and didn't want to go anymore. We have the same parents and the same expectations and ironically, me and the older brother had it rougher than the younger one when we were kids since by the time little brother came along my mom was older (she was a teen mom with me and my older brother) and made more money (she was on welfare when me and my older brother were young, we had a very rough home life but it was expected that we go to school everyday, that we be respectful/behave, and that we get good grades and have a minimum 3.5 GPA).
Do public school teachers write textbooks? Decide on curriculum?
Do public school teachers decide what will be taught at the teaching colleges?
Do public school teachers elect school trustees? Hire school superintendents? Promote to administration?
Do public school teachers decide how many students will be placed in a classroom?
For as long as memory serves educators have blamed their poor result on parents. IMO, we will always have some kids who need better parents. Looks to me like if all those educrats were as smart as they want us to think they are, one of them would have figured out how to teach the children of hookers, dope dealers and lazy arsed welfare moms.
Lol...you want to hold responsible the only people in the equation with absolutely no power over the kids.
My aunt is a retired teacher in a depressed economic area and she couldn't make the kids do homework etc. and if they got bad grades then mom (maybe the rare dad) would show up to blame them.
These are the same kids that showed up to kindergarden having never been taught ABC's, had a book read to them....nothing.
It's like drinking a case of beer a day and McDonalds for a year and then showing up at the doctor and blaming them for the terrible condition of their body.
That scenario is actually common today - in regards to ohhwanderlust's comment - in high performing public schools.
It is also common in gifted cohorts. I was a TAG student from K-12 and the level of competition was fierce. I remember being stressed and crying about potentially getting a B in 3rd grade (I didn't get a B) and even in 1st grade I remember being anxious about spelling words that started with a "u" like "unintelligent."
Most average schools and/or average students in public and private schools don't have that sort of atmosphere. I actually decided to take more "vocational" classes starting in 11th grade and due to being ahead in credits, I only went to school half the day my senior year as I wanted a break and time to decompress before college.
But honestly, most students are not that into getting good grades. I was and many of my friends were because, I admit, we were nuts lol. Mostly because we were VERY competitive with each other. We always thought that Bs and even A-'s were Fs in our minds lol. I do think we were fortunate to be in a TAG cohort in "the ghetto" (FWIW we had a very diverse cohort, where I lived whites and Asians and Latinos and blacks live in the ghetto). Our parents really didn't pressure us like wealthier parents are apt to do. They were too busy working and being tired from working hard jobs. Even my Asian friends didn't have stereotypical "tiger" parents. We were pushed moreso by our teachers and each other. IMO high performing/truly gifted kids really should be pegged as "special needs" and have some additional support in regards to counseling and family assistance since today many parents push kids who are already prone to being competitive academically to be more competitive and it is not healthy from a psychological standpoint. They already pressure each other and get enough pressure from school to where home life should be more of a refuge IMO.
Yup. Add in parental pressure, and it's a recipe for disaster. Thankfully my parents were very laid back when it came to school, but not everyone's were. One of my good friends was terrified to go home because she got a B on a midterm and she was afraid her parents would "cane" her for it. That is just wrong IMHO.
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), so I can see how things may have changed since then.
