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Do you find any laws, past or present, to be illogical and/or immoral?
Look, I understand your point about the competing interests between the business owner's right to religious freedom and the public's right to be free of certain types of discrimination, so I don't have a tin ear on your point. But the anti-discrimination laws we are discussing here are neither illogical nor immoral and I think it would be tough for you to even make a cohesive argument to the contrary.
You might not like the fact that you don't have the right to exclude homosexuals, latinos, or Muslims (or other protected classes) from your place of business, but that is not only the state of the law, but also, based on the continuing passage of more and more anti-discrimination laws, the direction society is going as a whole. If you don't like it, tough. Go run for office and change the law.
Look, I understand your point about the competing interests between the business owner's right to religious freedom and the public's right to be free of certain types of discrimination, so I don't have a tin ear on your point. But the anti-discrimination laws we are discussing here are neither illogical nor immoral and I think it would be tough for you to even make a cohesive argument to the contrary.
You might not like the fact that you don't have the right to exclude homosexuals, latinos, or Muslims (or other protected classes) from your place of business, but that is not only the state of the law, but also, based on the continuing passage of more and more anti-discrimination laws, the direction society is going as a whole. If you don't like it, tough. Go run for office and change the law.
Do you think it's possible that government, democracy, or laws are inherently illogical or immoral?
I say no. If you are in public business to provide a service or product in the marketplace you have no right to deny service based on religion.
If you want to be selective then you need to operate as a members-only club or plainly advertise that you restrict sales based on religious beliefs. There are plenty of members-only operations doing business. AAA might be an example...you need to be a member. You can establish club membership requirements related to church membership or Vegan status or whatever if it is in the bylaws and clearly understood.
There is a flip side to this. Customers have a choice. A county near where I used to live had a recent large influx of Plain People (I'll call them Amish-type but the actual denomination might be different ) families who bought farms and replaced "English" farmers. They would usually only patronize other Amish-type businesses which caused some economic hardship and eventual animosity in the community. Amish-type businesses would provide services to all comers but the new customer base was selective. This was essentially a de facto boycott of existing "English" businesses. That might be an extreme case but customers are free to go where they please. If you are Gay or Muslim or Atheist or Amish or whatever you can choose who you do business with. If a business is closed to certain customers it should say so up front and face the consequences...no whining allowed.
Tell me what Religion says they cannot serve food or provide medical treatments to gays? Starve or die if you are a gay person?
Sorry, but this is sounding far too much like those "We don't serve colored people" back in the past.
And a restaurant should have every right to say they don't serve colored people, white people, straight people, unattractive people or people with tattoos.
The government should not be in the business of preventing people from being offended or inconvenienced.
The government should not be in the business of supporting and subsidizing businesses who refuse to do business with certain protected classes of taxpayers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
And a restaurant should have every right to say they don't serve colored people, white people, straight people, unattractive people or people with tattoos.
Unfortunately for you, as a society, we have decided that you are completely wrong. So while an ever-shrinking group of people may still be living in the segregation era, the bulk of America has progressed beyond that type of rudimentary thinking.
If you own the business you should be able to refuse business to anyone. There used to be signs posted "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
If you are the employee, however, you have to go along with the boss. If it's a public corporation, like CVS, you can't refuse to sell birth control if you are Catholic, for example.
If you own the business you should be able to refuse business to anyone. There used to be signs posted "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
If you are the employee, however, you have to go along with the boss. If it's a public corporation, like CVS, you can't refuse to sell birth control if you are Catholic, for example.
You actually have that all turned around, Hal 9000. Hanging a sign on your door doesn't trump the law, but employers are required to make reasonable accommodation for their employees. Maybe you need to plug your bot brain back into the Roomba charging station to catch up on the last half-century of jurisprudence.
If business owners want to let their personal beliefs interfere with their livelihood, more power to them. The consumer base will ultimately decide whether that business survives or not.
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