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Old 08-14-2017, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,256 posts, read 18,624,274 times
Reputation: 25831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Yes, state's rights to run slavery economies.
So you think it was ALL about one issue? It was complex, and varied. Please do some research of the Tariffs of the day, and the economic pressure the Feds, and the North put upon the South.

 
Old 08-14-2017, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,484,504 times
Reputation: 8599
Irony: people waving Confederate flags screaming YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...6-35b6cbfcb6b5
 
Old 08-14-2017, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,290,171 times
Reputation: 19953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
We live in the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America. The Confederacy was a very short-lived nation that was defeated in a war long before any of us were born.

No American should be proud of Confederate statues or symbols. Nor should we feel bothered when they are taken down. They do not represent who we are.
They have a very odd history.

Most were erected during specific times in the history of the country--usually connected to a civil rights movement, not after the war. It is significant because they represent repression to many, and to some who have to pay taxes for their maintenance.

"....A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality...."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...uments/479751/
 
Old 08-14-2017, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,826 posts, read 13,745,970 times
Reputation: 17875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Again, and I've said this before, slavery was just one element of Southern society, and was NOT the sole reason for secession, nor the war. I think the issues of state's rights, and the Tariffs of the day were two of the other significant issues. I think of state's right as an essential, cornerstone of the U.S., plus over taxation in the forms of Tariffs is just plain WRONG.

So instead of Virtue Signaling all the time, and focusing solely on race, and slavery, maybe some should put their fragile egos aside, and learn from the past.
Spin it how you want but the genesis for the secession and the war was the consideration of what the policy concerning slavery should be in the western territories once they became states. So essentially 'State's right' to perpetuate slavery. Anything else you try and throw out there is just window dressing.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 09:45 AM
 
Location: SW Virginia
2,189 posts, read 1,409,159 times
Reputation: 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
We live in the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America. The Confederacy was a very short-lived nation that was defeated in a war long before any of us were born.

No American should be proud of Confederate statues or symbols. Nor should we feel bothered when they are taken down. They do not represent who we are.
If your family lived in the South back then, did not believe in Slavery, but were still attacked, burnt out and devastated by the Union and your forefathers fought back to save your homeland and family, there is a slight chance that you just may feel a little different about that...
 
Old 08-14-2017, 09:51 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,476,834 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Are you upset about the statues coming down because it is part of your heritage.

Are you racists? If not then why don't you come out against white supremacists etc and defend your heritage.

Same as saying for Muslims to come out against hatred and violence.
I am not sure what your point is, but I will tell you about myself and what I think.

Some of my ancestry has been here since the 17th century. My family had a few slaves in the decades since the revolution. I have one ancestor who fought in the civil war with the Mississippi cavalry, he survived.

I am proud of my heritage, and I do not see anything wrong with the civil war monuments as such being historical relics. They are mostly reconstruction era devices which were put up as the nation was struggling to accommodate with it's recent past. They had to yield to federal power, but this was a type of speech for them, an exercise in pride for a cause they believed in.

Today the monuments are quaint, to me at least.

I have come to realize that many people can see them differently than I do. Perhaps these erections were once used as a form of intimidation. I don't now, I wasn't there.

However this is (as always) a local matter. The monuments were put up mostly on local parks and civic centers by the local residents of the day. It is up to any town whether they want to remove a monument, the local authority has pride of place here. If the citizens want them down, so be it.

I believe any town that wants to keep their monuments should keep them, and any town that wants to remove them should do that. It is none of our business if we do not live in the community. I say let the local aldermen, mayors and county officials work it out for themselves on behalf of the residents and we non-residents respect their judgment.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 09:53 AM
 
Location: SW Virginia
2,189 posts, read 1,409,159 times
Reputation: 2016
The other thing I want to say is that the Civil War did not have to happen. It was a decision by Lincoln to invade Virginia after the South needed the Union to leave it's territory, Fort Sumter.

As a few have already mentioned, Slavery was Not the main reason for the war. Yes, it was the biggest Issue, but definitely Not the main reason for Lincoln to attack like he did.

Not only is it History, it is also just pure common sense.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,947,422 times
Reputation: 3805
The confederate statues and flags belong in museums. They lost in 1865.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 10:00 AM
 
262 posts, read 308,218 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
The confederate statues and flags belong in museums. They lost in 1865.

Exactly
 
Old 08-14-2017, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Central Mexico and Central Florida
7,150 posts, read 4,914,541 times
Reputation: 10444
There are no statues of Hitler in Germany. It's certainly a large part of their history and at one time Hitler was very very popular with the German people.
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