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Old 08-14-2017, 12:21 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,279,548 times
Reputation: 3287

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Bingo. Amazing that it even has to be pointed out.

And a fat lot of good that magnanimous gesture did.

That's the lesson to take away from the entire debacle. Rich old farts convinced young people to go get killed so they could stay rich.
I'm with you except for the middle point. If Lincoln had allowed the pissed off relatives of the 100's of thousands of dead union soldiers to seek vengeance we would today be taking down statues of northerners responsible for inflicting heinous punishments on southerners (both guilty and innocent).

We're living the best possible outcome out of a lot of bad outcomes. Lincoln was wise beyond measure at times.

 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:23 PM
 
8,418 posts, read 7,419,986 times
Reputation: 8767
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
I know that...

I figured it went without saying.

Now, when the South seceded, that meant the Union now had a fort in Confederate Territory. That couldn't be. Think about that today. Having an "enemy" with a fort within our own borders !!

Now, the South being the South, they very politely sent word to Fort Sumter that the needed to leave. I have read copies of the original letters in detail. They were very respectful letters. They went back and forth numerous times. The South patiently waited as long as reasonably possible and then realized that there was only one way left to get their point across. The cannons shot. Now amazingly, no one was killed and the Union packed up and left. You see, that's all the South wanted.

Now that "could" have finalized it. But Lincoln ordered his troops to invade Virginia as I stated above. (The Union lost bad in that battle incidentally, but that's another story).
Except that the land upon which Ft Sumter sat was federal land, not South Carolina land.

If you don't understand the concept, go read up on the history of U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:27 PM
 
Location: SW Virginia
2,189 posts, read 1,405,587 times
Reputation: 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Except that the land upon which Ft Sumter sat was federal land, not South Carolina land.

If you don't understand the concept, go read up on the history of U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
When a territory secedes, that goes out the window. What anyone else does, that's their business.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,942,745 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
When a territory secedes, that goes out the window. What anyone else does, that's their business.
Secession is illegal the southern traitors got what they deserved.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:30 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,279,548 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
When a territory secedes, that goes out the window. What anyone else does, that's their business.
Except it did matter. Didn't it?
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,550,307 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
When a territory secedes, that goes out the window. What anyone else does, that's their business.
When a treasonous territory illegally tries to rebel, ruination can be the inevitable consequence.

152 years ago, it certainly was.

Call it karma.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,232 posts, read 18,590,367 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Secession is illegal the southern traitors got what they deserved.
Revolution is illegal also. Should we give the United States back to the British? The Founding Father were ALL criminals in the eyes of the British, and colonial Loyalists.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,942,745 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Revolution is illegal also. Should we give the United States back to the British? The Founding Father were ALL criminals in the eyes of the British, and colonial Loyalists.
The south seceding and the american revolution are not comparable. The United States mended its ways the south dragged its feet with regards to social progress.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:34 PM
 
8,418 posts, read 7,419,986 times
Reputation: 8767
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 Acres View Post
When a territory secedes, that goes out the window. What anyone else does, that's their business.
No.

It doesn't.

I think that the William Tecumseh Sherman quote is pertinent here.

War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 12:36 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,279,548 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Revolution is illegal also. Should we give the United States back to the British? The Founding Father were ALL criminals in the eyes of the British, and colonial Loyalists.
Difference is the US won and the south lost. The British (at least at the time) had similar disdain for the US. They wound up being much better losers than the south, however.
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