Second Amendment Rights and Refugees/immigrants

[Ex New Yorker]

Originally Posted by cuebald

There is absolutely no mention of any god in the Constitution.

It's stated in the Declaration of Independence "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

Now whom may their "Creator" be? I don't think they were referring to their parents. Otherwise they would have stated "that they are endowed by their Parents with certain unalienable Rights". Or if they meant the government they would have stated that "they are endowed by their Government with certain unalienable Rights".

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles.

Not too hard to understand now is it?

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker

It's stated in the Declaration of Independence "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

Now whom may their "Creator" be? I don't think they were referring to their parents. Otherwise they would have stated "that they are endowed by their Parents with certain unalienable Rights". Or if they meant the government they would have stated that "they are endowed by their Government with certain unalienable Rights".



Not too hard to understand now is it?

That is the Declaration of Independence. They got smarter by the time they drafted the Constitution. There is no mention of any sort of god in the Constitution. Read it.

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle

Those are very important..a basic proficiency in English is required to pass the citizenship test.

A question...you mention a 'Basic misunderstanding of the Second Amendment'.

Care to elucidate?

**Crickets**

[Natsku]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

And, just how would you handle that with criminals who obtain their weapons? If we halt gun sales, they will flow freely through our open southern border, the price will be higher, but they will come.

Psych evaluations, most of the time, aren't worth the paper they wrote on.

Just because you can't solve all the problems, doesn't mean you shouldn't solve some. You might as well be saying there's no point having laws because criminals will still break them.

Make psych evaluations more stringent then. When things aren't good enough you need to improve them, not just get rid of them.

[Ex New Yorker]

Originally Posted by cuebald

That is the Declaration of Independence. They got smarter by the time they drafted the Constitution. There is no mention of any sort of god in the Constitution. Read it.

That's what I said. Read it!

It would have been redundant to mention it again in the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence laid the groundwork for the Constitution. The Constitution is a set of laws that guarantees our basic civil liberties from a tyrannical government. That's the reason why the colonists fought and won their independence from Great Britain. The reason why we have a 2nd Amendment. Why we have a Bill of Rights in the first place. We are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy as some would like us to believe. If we were a Democracy there would be no Constitution or Bill of Rights. Our civil liberties would be at the mercy of whomever the majority elected at any given time. No different than Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan. "A democracy is where you have two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."--Benjamin Franklin

All government officials put their hands on a bible and are sworn to uphold the Constitution. "So help them God". Whether you believe in God or a creator is irrelevant as those are the laws of the land of which this nation was founded on.

Only our creator or God if you will can rescind our civil liberties. Take the word God out of the picture and our civil liberties will no longer be guaranteed. Pretty simple, huh?

[Gungnir]

Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker

Form 4473 question: 12.c. Are you an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States? If you answer "yes" to that question than you are prohibited from purchasing or owning a firearm in the United States.

That solely applies to illegal aliens, and not aliens in the US on immigrant or non-immigrant visas, the VWP, or under refugee status who are all lawfully in the US.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Natsku

Just because you can't solve all the problems, doesn't mean you shouldn't solve some. You might as well be saying there's no point having laws because criminals will still break them.

Make psych evaluations more stringent then. When things aren't good enough you need to improve them, not just get rid of them.

Psych evaluations? For what?
Freedom of speech 1a?
Gun purchases and ownership 2a?
House soldiers sailors Marines during peace time or war 3a?
Subject to search and seizure 4a?
Be a witness against oneself 5a?
The right to a fair and speedy trial 6a?
The right to trial by jury regarding matters of 20 dollars or more 7a?
Excessive bail and subject to cruel and/or unusual punishment 8a?
Rights retained by people may be denied 9a?
States do not have a right to establish jurisdiction or a set of laws that federal law is the only law 10a?

Yes. Let's subject everyone to a psych exam before they can practice their rights as outlined by both the constitution and bill of Rights, or states constitution in which they reside.
Let's expose criminals be it petty larceny or a parking violation or rape or murder to cruel and unusual punishment until they pass a psych evaluation. And delay their trial so they may get cruel and unusual punishment.
Let's make it mandatory for those living within 50 miles of any military installation feed and house military members. Active and reserve. Until they pass a psych exam.
Let's make people incriminate themselves until they pass a psych exam.
Pass a psych exam before being able to vote.
Pass a psych exam to have a trial by jury.
Pass a psych exam to have the ability to speak freely, or practice a religion.
Pass a psych exam to earn a paycheck in exchange for labor.

Careful what you ask for. Because when you subject any amendment open to pass a psych evaluation, it may backfire and be imposed on every other amendment.

When subjective opinion or morality is the logic and reasoning... it can bite you square in the behind. That is the potential you open to the table.

To a rabid antigunner I am mentally unstable for I enjoy shooting sports and hunting, and expend over 1000 rounds easily at a shooting range.

But would the dinks of my generation who are so self absorbed in social media posting selfies, since "narcissisties" is too difficult of a word to spell, on that face book, insta-model (instagram), snap chat, etc be free and clear of mental disorder/defectiveness?

Or would you rather the government expand in hitleresque or north korean fashion to place a government agent inside every home or a live video and audio feed in every home to ensure no crimes are committed no potential risks exist?
That's what is open.

Everyone gets all up in arms to attack the 2nd ammendment and every legislation, every law written, which has proven to be in effective time and time again, that restricts that freedom more and more, tragedies exploited time and time again.

To some, and it wouldn't come to be a surprise since their emotions control them, I and others like me, are a threat for we have a different set of hobbies, a different way of life, however we don't go stepping on your throats and demand you forfeit a right you hold near and dear or request background checks, propose psych evaluations, to carry those rights out you so much enjoy protected via the constitution and bill of rights...

For being "all inclusive/progressive" ya'll sure do have a funny way of alienating and demonizing that which is different from your subjective utopian beliefs...
Can't live and let live. No no. Censor this. Ban that. Protect the kids from this, protect the kids from that. May as well issue everyone a bubble at birth, a police officer to guard and protect them and their property at all times. Ban and destroy anything and everything that may be risky or dangerous to one's health safety and life. Don't forget the tender feelings.

Kiss private owned vehicles goodbye, you stand a chance at being fatally injured or killed in a car accident...
Kiss hooking up and sleeping around good bye, might catch the aids.
Kiss any sense of adventure good bye. God forbid someone rides a bicycle and falls over and punctures their precious bubble, or goes for a swim, for they may drown.
Kiss speaking your mind goodbye for someone may find offense and bawl their eyes out over it.
Kiss every freedom, every bit of diversity, and intellect goodbye.
Make cattle mindless, good for nothing bags of bones reliant on a system for sustenance while under the guise of protecting health, life, and feelings.

All based on a psych evaluation.

In all seriousness though. How do you propose instilling a psych evaluation for 320 million Americans to carry out their 2nd Amendment rights?
Would it be you get to see one over worked under paid, possibly politicized shrink for a 1 and done exam? Would there be multiple shrinks to see? Would it be mandatory once at age of consent and again at 21? Would it be something needing performed annually? Quarterly?
Would record keeping be kept in private and only traded with federal and state/county/city/town law enforcement, or would it be public?

We do have HIPAA laws... or does HIPAA get trashed? And if so only for mental health or do parents of a teenager get the right to know why little Sally has nausea in the morning and why little Johnny has a burning sensation when he pees?

Or do you install a device which reads and records ones thoughts to determine whether their sanity and conscious is sound? Are dreams and nightmares subject to interpretation too?
Sounds like an expensive bureaucracy where state and federally employed under paid psychologists would dictate who's sane and sound vs those who arent...

Seems like a really big waste of money that could be spent better elsewhere...

[Ex New Yorker]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

Psych evaluations? For what?
Freedom of speech 1a?
Gun purchases and ownership 2a?
House soldiers sailors Marines during peace time or war 3a?
Subject to search and seizure 4a?
Be a witness against oneself 5a?
The right to a fair and speedy trial 6a?
The right to trial by jury regarding matters of 20 dollars or more 7a?
Excessive bail and subject to cruel and/or unusual punishment 8a?
Rights retained by people may be denied 9a?
States do not have a right to establish jurisdiction or a set of laws that federal law is the only law 10a?

Yes. Let's subject everyone to a psych exam before they can practice their rights as outlined by both the constitution and bill of Rights, or states constitution in which they reside.
Let's expose criminals be it petty larceny or a parking violation or rape or murder to cruel and unusual punishment until they pass a psych evaluation. And delay their trial so they may get cruel and unusual punishment.
Let's make it mandatory for those living within 50 miles of any military installation feed and house military members. Active and reserve. Until they pass a psych exam.
Let's make people incriminate themselves until they pass a psych exam.
Pass a psych exam before being able to vote.
Pass a psych exam to have a trial by jury.
Pass a psych exam to have the ability to speak freely, or practice a religion.
Pass a psych exam to earn a paycheck in exchange for labor.

Careful what you ask for. Because when you subject any amendment open to pass a psych evaluation, it may backfire and be imposed on every other amendment.

When subjective opinion or morality is the logic and reasoning... it can bite you square in the behind. That is the potential you open to the table.

To a rabid antigunner I am mentally unstable for I enjoy shooting sports and hunting, and expend over 1000 rounds easily at a shooting range.

But would the dinks of my generation who are so self absorbed in social media posting selfies, since "narcissisties" is too difficult of a word to spell, on that face book, insta-model (instagram), snap chat, etc be free and clear of mental disorder/defectiveness?

Or would you rather the government expand in hitleresque or north korean fashion to place a government agent inside every home or a live video and audio feed in every home to ensure no crimes are committed no potential risks exist?
That's what is open.

Everyone gets all up in arms to attack the 2nd ammendment and every legislation, every law written, which has proven to be in effective time and time again, that restricts that freedom more and more, tragedies exploited time and time again.

To some, and it wouldn't come to be a surprise since their emotions control them, I and others like me, are a threat for we have a different set of hobbies, a different way of life, however we don't go stepping on your throats and demand you forfeit a right you hold near and dear or request background checks, propose psych evaluations, to carry those rights out you so much enjoy protected via the constitution and bill of rights...

For being "all inclusive/progressive" ya'll sure do have a funny way of alienating and demonizing that which is different from your subjective utopian beliefs...
Can't live and let live. No no. Censor this. Ban that. Protect the kids from this, protect the kids from that. May as well issue everyone a bubble at birth, a police officer to guard and protect them and their property at all times. Ban and destroy anything and everything that may be risky or dangerous to one's health safety and life. Don't forget the tender feelings.

Kiss private owned vehicles goodbye, you stand a chance at being fatally injured or killed in a car accident...
Kiss hooking up and sleeping around good bye, might catch the aids.
Kiss any sense of adventure good bye. God forbid someone rides a bicycle and falls over and punctures their precious bubble, or goes for a swim, for they may drown.
Kiss speaking your mind goodbye for someone may find offense and bawl their eyes out over it.
Kiss every freedom, every bit of diversity, and intellect goodbye.
Make cattle mindless, good for nothing bags of bones reliant on a system for sustenance while under the guise of protecting health, life, and feelings.

All based on a psych evaluation.

In all seriousness though. How do you propose instilling a psych evaluation for 320 million Americans to carry out their 2nd Amendment rights?
Would it be you get to see one over worked under paid, possibly politicized shrink for a 1 and done exam? Would there be multiple shrinks to see? Would it be mandatory once at age of consent and again at 21? Would it be something needing performed annually? Quarterly?
Would record keeping be kept in private and only traded with federal and state/county/city/town law enforcement, or would it be public?

We do have HIPAA laws... or does HIPAA get trashed? And if so only for mental health or do parents of a teenager get the right to know why little Sally has nausea in the morning and why little Johnny has a burning sensation when he pees?

Or do you install a device which reads and records ones thoughts to determine whether their sanity and conscious is sound? Are dreams and nightmares subject to interpretation too?
Sounds like an expensive bureaucracy where state and federally employed under paid psychologists would dictate who's sane and sound vs those who arent...

Seems like a really big waste of money that could be spent better elsewhere...

Outstanding!

[Roboteer]

The 2nd amendment doesn't say, "These people have a right but those people don't".

It says that government can't make rules taking away or restricting the right to own or carry guns etc. And it explains why.

What does that have to do with refugee or immigrant status?