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Old 12-04-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Forest bathing
3,205 posts, read 2,486,856 times
Reputation: 7268

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro5 View Post
You liberals really have lost your marbles. You really have no idea what's going on and get your panties in a twist just because it's something Donald Trump did.

Giving that land back to the people of Utah is something they wanted. Less government control as a national monument and it will be run by the park service. There will be more access for everyone. Much better use of the land.

It always seems to be the same idiots questioning every move. If you're still butt hurt from the election the only thing you should be questioning is your own sanity.
Get your facts straight. The land was combined BLM and USFS land, all federal. Federal land does NOT belong to Utah citizens; it belongs to the citizens of the United States. If the Feds are coerced into selling the land, guess what the state does? They sell it to private interests and up go the gates. The feds can operate at a deficit; not the states. Due to Mormonism, Utah’s schools are bursting. State government wants fed land so they can sell it for schools. It’s already happened in two large recent sales.

And gated private property means no access unless you get permission and/or pay for the privilege. If you hunt, fish, hike, bike, 4 wheel, photograph, you will be sol.

ETA: some national monuments allow hunting and fishing.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,359,245 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by clikrf8 View Post
Get your facts straight. The land was combined BLM and USFS land, all federal. Federal land does NOT belong to Utah citizens; it belongs to the citizens of the United States. If the Feds are coerced into selling the land, guess what the state does? They sell it to private interests and up go the gates. The feds can operate at a deficit; not the states. Due to Mormonism, Utah’s schools are bursting. State government wants fed land so they can sell it for schools. It’s already happened in two large recent sales.

And gated private property means no access unless you get permission and/or pay for the privilege. If you hunt, fish, hike, bike, 4 wheel, photograph, you will be sol.

ETA: some national monuments allow hunting and fishing.
Actually, I think the state government wants Federal land so that they can sell it off to mining and fossil fuel interests.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Forest bathing
3,205 posts, read 2,486,856 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Actually, I think the state government wants Federal land so that they can sell it off to mining and fossil fuel interests.
This, too. Utah is hungry for revenue.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:12 PM
 
32,069 posts, read 15,067,783 times
Reputation: 13690
Most of us came to this country as immigrants. We killed many native americans for their land. They have their sacred lands which were national monuments declared by Obama and Clinton. Now Trump wants to destroy that. Why should this be allowed.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:34 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,452,870 times
Reputation: 14266
Not surprised, and there will probably be a lot more of this.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:57 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,552,822 times
Reputation: 3608
It's appalling. Public lands that the Republicans want to turn over to their oil and gas buddies to make private profit. It's the 21st century, by which this nation should have well advanced with regard to investment in and implementation of renewable energy. But no: instead, we're going to destroy every single acre we can so that the oil and gas industries can squeeze as much private profit as possible until the whole god*amn planet collapses. It is hardly a "land grab" by the federal government, when the federal government represents the public interest. Just one more way that the Republicans abuse language.

For some Americans, the phrase "I love America" refers only to what America is supposed to stand for. For others, we actually mean not only the ideals associated with America, but the land, waters, and wild animals themselves--the physical magnificence and beauty of our nation--its reality. These, we want to protect--for the generations to come--from the sociopathic predation of corrupt politicians and industries. For some Americans, the physical landscape of "the creation" has no sanctity whatsoever, is merely a commodity to be divided and sold. For others, as Emerson and Thoreau stated, it is "the face of God."

So sure, go ahead and destroy wild nature--drill, plunder, destroy. I'm sure God is standing by, nodding in approval.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:09 AM
 
13,212 posts, read 21,832,803 times
Reputation: 14130
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
It's appalling. Public lands that the Republicans want to turn over to their oil and gas buddies to make private profit. It's the 21st century, by which this nation should have well advanced with regard to investment in and implementation of renewable energy. But no: instead, we're going to destroy every single acre we can so that the oil and gas industries can squeeze as much private profit as possible until the whole god*amn planet collapses. It is hardly a "land grab" by the federal government, when the federal government represents the public interest. Just one more way that the Republicans abuse language.

For some Americans, the phrase "I love America" refers only to what America is supposed to stand for. For others, we actually mean not only the ideals associated with America, but the land, waters, and wild animals themselves--the physical magnificence and beauty of our nation--its reality. These, we want to protect--for the generations to come--from the sociopathic predation of corrupt politicians and industries. For some Americans, the physical landscape of "the creation" has no sanctity whatsoever, is merely a commodity to be divided and sold. For others, as Emerson and Thoreau stated, it is "the face of God."

So sure, go ahead and destroy wild nature--drill, plunder, destroy. I'm sure God is standing by, nodding in approval.
Well said.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,315 posts, read 26,217,746 times
Reputation: 15647
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Actually, I think the state government wants Federal land so that they can sell it off to mining and fossil fuel interests.
If they remove the designation it will be open for mining and other exploration, yet Zeinke claims he is giving it back to the people. Who exactly are these "people", oil and mining companies because the new definition indicates companies are people.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:55 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,474,011 times
Reputation: 9440
Quote:
Originally Posted by clikrf8 View Post
This, too. Utah is hungry for revenue.
Strip mining and mt. top removal is a great way to keep the tourists out.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:13 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,226,860 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Which people of Utah? The ones who were originally there, or the ones who took it from them? Or the ones who now want to turn it into oil fields?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-interior-monument-tribes/navajo-tribe-says-ready-to-sue-trump-over-changes-to-utah-monument-idUSKCN1BW2W0
The first ones? What about them? All ten of them?

Ppphhhhttt they are not relevant.
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