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Previous argument: ALL gun sales must have a 4473 (because that's what they do at Cabelas).
Current argument: I shouldn't have to have a background check for any gun purchase.
Surely you can see that your argument has changed.
No, I don't. Why do I have to submit a 4473 to buy a gun at Cabela's, if my right is supposedly not supposed to be infringed via the US Constitution?
Form 4473 stays with the seller. They do not have to submit a copy to ATF or anyone else. ATF however does audit these forms at the sellers place of business once a year and there's nothing really stopping them from taking down information from them. They're not supposed to. They're just supposed to make sure they are all properly completed via visual inspection. IDK what really goes on. I've never been present at my friends store on an audit day. He closed up for those days. He tells me that they have never tried to photocopy or take pictures or anything. Just went through his sales records and made sure all the paperwork was in order.
ATF here is based out of Reno. I've met a few of them and interacted with a couple once on a particular occasion. My landlord had asked me if I would clean out a storage conex on the place I was renting. A previous tenant had left a bunch of flotsam in it and he told me he'd give me a months rent if I'd muck it out and get rid of the stuff. Hell yea! I'm on it. Well when I got far to the back I found a wooden military crate with a padlock on it.
Curiosity prompted me to take my bolt cutters and have a look see. Inside it was a Street Sweeper 12 ga shotgun. One of the originals that basically works like a Colt SAA. Manual ejection via a spring loaded push rod. However, it's classified as a "destructive device" under ATF regs put in during Clintons terms and the Omnibus Crime act. It had no tax stamp on it and there was no way to get one. I was now in possession of a weapon that could land me in federal prison. So I turned it in. I thought about just burying it somewhere all wrapped up and packed in cosmo with a bunch of ammo in a sealed can. Minus doing that if I had kept it around I know my son would have found it and taken it out for a range test when I wasn't around.
Even if I had told him to leave it be boys will be boys and the mayhem sort of fun pumping out a 15 round drum of 12 ga would be with a bunch of milk jugs full of jello (something he and I did a lot with our other guns) I felt would be to tempting. And the thought of getting caught with a "destructive device" didn't appeal to me. The agents were actually way cool. Told me it was a shame I couldn't just get a tax stamp for it which if it wasn't past the deadline I could have done no problem. That I had found it as I did they accepted as the truth. Didn't give me any flack or want to search my house or anything.
Cops in this are, even federal ones are pretty pro 2A. The State Troopers here in the North have a way pro 2A outlook. If there were some attempt at outright bans requiring search and seizure I do believe there would be some LE opposition herebouts. LEOs here in N NV are predominantly very pro gun rights. I haven't met one yet who isn't. Clark county/Vegas metro is where all the anti 2A people are. The biggest urban center here is Reno/Sparks which has its bad areas but nothing like Vegas, San Fran or LA. Places like Chicago, LA, NYC, Baltimore and Boston that have places totally under gang control where LE is basically helpless we don't have around here.
The most dangerous places I can think of to are actually in pretty remote areas and those are on the Reservations. There's an unwritten rule about non Indians on certain areas of the Rez. One you flat don't want to break. Matter of fact I double dog dare the Crips, Bloods, MS13, Latin Kings, or any of the Aryan bunch to try. Things work quite differently out there. And its something that's better off being let be. There's not a thing in the world that any LE, tribal,(which is actually federal) state, local county Sheriff, on up to the FBI can do about it. If you're passing through certain Reservations up here just stay on the highway. Don't pull off anywhere but the smoke shop which is right off the highway.
The tribes take their 2A rights to a new level on the Reservations I'm bringing to mind. I guarantee you that there's no law that might ever pass that will disarm them. Just won't happen. They are literally a sovereign nation. Any move by outside forces to disarm them they can and will declare war on. Yeppers, it's a different world out there and it's a BIG place too. Again, something that's just better off left alone. I'd drive through the very worst areas of Chicago or LA before I'd take a tour off the beaten path out there. Better chance of getting out alive in the former.
I'm assuming that neither of us are violent criminals.
However, certainly some people are.
You appeared to be discussing ways to deal with those people in this post.
Sorry, apparently, for thinking you could have a discussion on your own idea.
My idea was simple, or did you not understand that we should burn our trash...
Give the people liberty to live as the please. The moment they cross the line harsh punishment. It's a very simple concept to understand...
Therfore I am not concerned for society. I only worry about myself. Law is law. I'd like some laws changed but harsh punishments for breaking them. That's what I love about Florida. This state gets it right on violent crime, and gets it right on drinking and driving. Instant felony no reduction.
The most dangerous places I can think of to are actually in pretty remote areas and those are on the Reservations. There's an unwritten rule about non Indians on certain areas of the Rez. One you flat don't want to break. Matter of fact I double dog dare the Crips, Bloods, MS13, Latin Kings, or any of the Aryan bunch to try. Things work quite differently out there. And its something that's better off being let be. There's not a thing in the world that any LE, tribal,(which is actually federal) state, local county Sheriff, on up to the FBI can do about it. If you're passing through certain Reservations up here just stay on the highway. Don't pull off anywhere but the smoke shop which is right off the highway.
The tribes take their 2A rights to a new level on the Reservations I'm bringing to mind. I guarantee you that there's no law that might ever pass that will disarm them. Just won't happen. They are literally a sovereign nation. Any move by outside forces to disarm them they can and will declare war on. Yeppers, it's a different world out there and it's a BIG place too. Again, something that's just better off left alone. I'd drive through the very worst areas of Chicago or LA before I'd take a tour off the beaten path out there. Better chance of getting out alive in the former.
That's for sure!
That's the way it is here in Arizona especially in Navajo and Apache Counties which are in the northeast corner of the state. Usually you'll see signs on the highway telling you that you are entering and exiting the reservations. We drove out to Monument Valley to Mexican Hat, Utah. It's got to be one of the most desolate places on earth. It's no place to have a breakdown or a flat that's for sure. We saw a few vehicles on the highway that were literally falling apart, no license plates, broken glass, cracked windshields, fenders half falling off. They looked like they just left the scene of a bad accident. Unbelievable! One pick up truck we saw was packed full of Indians, a few looked like they were about to fall out of the truck's bed. The only time we stopped was in Mexican Hat to fuel up, that you do not want to run out of either.
If anyone plans on coming out here, Monument Valley was worth checking out. Just make sure your vehicle is in good working order, you've got a full tank and extra water and yeah don't get off the highway and wander around. If you do go armed and get stopped by the Tribal Police more than likely they will take your weapon and you'll probably not get it back. So if you do carry a firearm bring one that you probably won't miss if it is confiscated. Me? I would not go through there without one. Just make sure you obey all traffic laws and you should be okay. 55 or 65 means 55 or 65 not 5 mph over.
If you don't want to take your own vehicle you can book tours of that area
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 10-21-2017 at 06:57 PM..
You know when people on "your side" tell you your posts make no sense, you should at least pay some attention.
It makes perfect sense to not have a registry of any kind. And given the "shall not be infringed" mandate in the 2nd Amendment, "permits" of any kind shouldn't be required, either.
It makes perfect sense to not have a registry of any kind. And given the "shall not be infringed" mandate in the 2nd Amendment, "permits" of any kind shouldn't be required, either.
We have the highest gun violence in the world. To me, it's a no brainer...lives or gun lovers. I have no problem with guns in the home
We have the highest gun violence in the world. To me, it's a no brainer...lives or gun lovers. I have no problem with guns in the home
it's not a gun problem. It's a race/culture problem. Look at exactly WHO is committing a highly disproportionate percentage of gun homicides and nonfatal violent gun crimes.
it's not a gun problem. It's a race/culture problem. Look at exactly WHO is committing a highly disproportionate percentage of gun homicides and nonfatal violent gun crimes.
No need to beat around the bush, it is black gang members who do most of the gun violence.
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Inside it was a Street Sweeper 12 ga shotgun. One of the originals that basically works like a Colt SAA. Manual ejection via a spring loaded push rod. However, it's classified as a "destructive device" under ATF regs put in during Clintons terms and the Omnibus Crime act. It had no tax stamp on it and there was no way to get one. I was now in possession of a weapon that could land me in federal prison. So I turned it in. I thought about just burying it somewhere all wrapped up and packed in cosmo with a bunch of ammo in a sealed can. 
Minus doing that if I had kept it around I know my son would have found it and taken it out for a range test when I wasn't around. 
