Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:33 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,323 times
Reputation: 231

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
Nah. Even if the Second Amendment were to be repealed, you still have all those guns.
I don't understand your point, can you clarify? (serious)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:41 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,474,011 times
Reputation: 9440
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL IRON View Post
What the founding fathers thought is made apparent by their other writings at the time.
So they thought that the govt. they were creating wasn`t any good and people will need guns to get rid of it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:49 AM
 
19,724 posts, read 10,128,243 times
Reputation: 13091
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
So they thought that the govt. they were creating wasn`t any good and people will need guns to get rid of it?
They had all seen good governments become corrupted and need to be gone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:54 AM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,587,882 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
No, the founding fathers thought the best defense against tyranny was an armed public as well as armed militia, with all this going on, have you ever heard a single word from any militia? Gee I wonder why?
The self-styled thought of gun owners as the Col. Jessup-ish firewall between democracy and tyranny by the government in modern society is an absurd NRA-peddled talking point. Do you really believe the Government and it’s military are dissuaded from enslaving you because you own a few guns? Complete hogwash which, incidentally, has been disproved by the fully-functioning non-tyrannical French and British societies.

Do you believe that a citizen should shoot a police officer if that officer tried to enforce an unlawful order? You think the Founding Fathers would have wanted the nurse in Utah to pull out a handgun and try to blow away the now-fired police officer who tried to arrest her? Or perhaps the rule of law, rather than guns saving her from tyrannical oppression by a government agent, won the day in the end.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:57 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,323 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
So they thought that the govt. they were creating wasn`t any good and people will need guns to get rid of it?
They were wise enough to know that people and governments can be corrupted and that there should be a balancing factor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 06:59 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,323 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
The self-styled thought of gun owners as the Col. Jessup-ish firewall between democracy and tyranny by the government in modern society is an absurd NRA-peddled talking point. Do you really believe the Government and it’s military are dissuaded from enslaving you because you own a few guns? Complete hogwash which, incidentally, has been disproved by the fully-functioning non-tyrannical French and British societies.

Do you believe that a citizen should shoot a police officer if that officer tried to enforce an unlawful order? You think the Founding Fathers would have wanted the nurse in Utah to pull out a handgun and try to blow away the now-fired police officer who tried to arrest her? Or perhaps the rule of law, rather than guns saving her from tyrannical oppression by a government agent, won the day in the end.
Yes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
2,771 posts, read 2,304,565 times
Reputation: 5139
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL IRON View Post
I don't understand your point, can you clarify? (serious)
From a thread I started, (which got merged into a megathread)

It's Too Late, People.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,945 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL IRON View Post
The simple answer is that I don't believe as you believe.
So you think the United States is better than other western countries because we have a significantly higher gun death rate?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 07:30 AM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,587,882 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL IRON View Post
Yes.
If the government wanted to enslave you, they have the might to do it, no matter how many guns you own. The rule of law, and society's belief in it, is what keeps the government at bay. If the rule of law fails, then this country will disintegrate even if you have a cache of arms in your basement.

The more I think about it, the more that the "we must have guns to defend us from the US Government" line of thinking becomes more ridiculous. In essence, you are advocating vigilantism and asking to empower an armed, unelected band of citizens to make subjective, unilateral decisions about what constitutes "tyranny" and thereafter start open warfare against our elected government.

Who are you to define "tyranny"? Is the ACA a form of tyranny? Should one start shooting IRS agents if they attempt to enforce the individual mandate penalty? What if the Second Amendment is repealed, laws are passed outlawing guns, and the police come to take yours and compensate you monetarily for them? Is that tyranny? Can you shoot the police to keep your guns?

The premise that individuals need guns so that they can make subjective decisions about government tyranny and act violently against the government in such an event sounds to me like the opposite of democracy. It sounds like giving the green light to domestic terrorism.

We are protected from tyranny by the belief in system of collective societal belief in the rule of law and the legitimacy of (and our participation in) the electoral system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2017, 07:37 AM
 
764 posts, read 235,323 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
If the government wanted to enslave you, they have the might to do it, no matter how many guns you own. The rule of law, and society's belief in it, is what keeps the government at bay. If the rule of law fails, then this country will disintegrate even if you have a cache of arms in your basement.

The more I think about it, the more that the "we must have guns to defend us from the US Government" line of thinking becomes more ridiculous. In essence, you are advocating vigilantism and asking to empower an armed, unelected band of citizens to make subjective, unilateral decisions about what constitutes "tyranny" and thereafter start open warfare against our elected government.

Who are you to define "tyranny"? Is the ACA a form of tyranny? Should one start shooting IRS agents if they attempt to enforce the individual mandate penalty? What if the Second Amendment is repealed, laws are passed outlawing guns, and the police come to take yours and compensate you monetarily for them? Is that tyranny? Can you shoot the police to keep your guns?

The premise that individuals need guns so that they can make subjective decisions about government tyranny and act violently against the government in such an event sounds to me like the opposite of democracy. It sounds like giving the green light to domestic terrorism.

We are protected from tyranny by the belief in system of collective societal belief in the rule of law and the legitimacy of (and our participation in) the electoral system.
This may be true, but the purpose of the 2nd is to make such a thing so costly that it would not be worth it.

Every man defines tyranny in his own way...... if enough people agree that it is happening then there is some type of response.

I'm sure King George would agree.

We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
---Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:39 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top