Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,447,190 times
Reputation: 2540

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Lorem View Post
California's so far in debt all of these fluffy ideas will come crashing back to reality.

We have a long way to go before natural gas or other alternative fuel sources are going anywhere.
What 'fluffy ideas' are those?

Once again...50% of the entire demand of the California power grid is met by renewables.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,447,190 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Invention Secrecy Act of 1951 was enacted and designed to suppress any new technology like this that had the potential to be destructive to any existing large industry.
Would you be in favor of invoking this law to protect the fossil fuel industry?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:10 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
lithium IS a metal. it may be compounded with another material to stabilize the lithium, but lithium=ion batteries DO contain lithium metal.
A lithium ion/cation is not lithium metal. It is lithium metal minus an electron, and why lithium is so good as a battery.

Lithium is not mined as a metal, it is mined as a salt compound. So lithium metal is not used in making these batteries. You could use lithium metal in the lab, but not on a large scale.

E zero of lithium is about 3V. Higher than any other metal.

Lithium is the lightest of all metals, has the greatest electrochemical potential and provides the largest energy density for weight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:24 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,074,696 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
What 'fluffy ideas' are those?

Once again...50% of the entire demand of the California power grid is met by renewables.
...and it's 100% dependent on fossil fuel, nuclear and hydro. What you fail to realize is a large part of your electric bill is the capital cots to build those plants. Even when they are not running you are paying for them. Without some stupendous amount of capacity and storage you can never meet the reliability of that gas plant they will be idling. In addition to the unneeded expense of the batteries the more they are idled the more it cost to generate power from those plants.

California already has one of the highest electric rates in the nation, this will increase it even more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:25 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,776,811 times
Reputation: 6856
As technology advances, renewable energy sources will put fossil fuels out of business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:29 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,707,466 times
Reputation: 14622
Reading through this thread proves that the vast majority of people posting have zero idea what is actually being proposed or how such a system works.

Through the expansion of renewable power generation sources such as solar, California now produces more energy during the day then it uses. When night comes and solar production drops or there are demand spikes, those situations are currently handled by natural gas power plants known as "peakers". They are called this because they are specially designed to be able to quickly ramp up and ramp down production to ensure that the grid can meet demand.

It is these "peakers" that are going to potentially be replaced by the expansion of the battery farms. These types of farms are already operating in California and have been very successful. Regular natural gas power generation will still be a critical part of the power grid in California and the nation as a whole, generating the baseline level of power needed while solar handles the day time surges and the batteries store excess solar to handle the early evening demand spike.

Amazing how people can turn legitimate industrial and technological progress in improving the functioning of the power grid into such a ridiculous partisan political argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 08:45 AM
 
13,966 posts, read 5,632,409 times
Reputation: 8621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
As technology advances, renewable energy sources will put fossil fuels out of business.
As the technology of electricity storage advances, and the price of capturing energy, converting it to electricity and then storing that electricity becomes much cheaper...then renewable energy will start putting a dent in fossil fuel's market share.

For the consumer, it is all about (1) price and (2) reliability....AND NOT HAVING TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR.

When renewable is as cheap as setting up your utilities with the local provider and offers the same "anytime I feel like running every device in my house at the same time for 3 days straight because I freaking feel like it" reliability, then you'll see people begin to migrate that way, especially if it is cheaper.

Price, value, convenience. When renewable beats fossil fuel on all three, yes, the market will respond.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,357,057 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
What 'fluffy ideas' are those?

Once again...50% of the entire demand of the California power grid is met by renewables.
More like 25%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 11:10 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,858,743 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
A lithium ion/cation is not lithium metal. It is lithium metal minus an electron, and why lithium is so good as a battery.
its not the number of electrons that makes lithium a metal, its the element itself that is classed as a metal. the number of electrons, compared to the number of protons, only determines the stability of the element and not its classification. take away a proton or two and the element is no longer lithium, same with adding a proton or two.

Quote:
Lithium is not mined as a metal, it is mined as a salt compound. So lithium metal is not used in making these batteries. You could use lithium metal in the lab, but not on a large scale.
lithium is mined as a salt, NNNOOOO really?!?!? you wouldnt kid me on that would you? sodium, potassium, and other similar metals are also mined as salt compounds, and the metal and chlorine are separated out from each other. remember these are unstable elements, and nature prefers stability, thus these elements will combine with other unstable elements to create stable compounds.

and lithium IS used in making batteries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 11:19 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
its not the number of electrons that makes lithium a metal, its the element itself that is classed as a metal. the number of electrons, compared to the number of protons, only determines the stability of the element and not its classification. take away a proton or two and the element is no longer lithium, same with adding a proton or two.



lithium is mined as a salt, NNNOOOO really?!?!? you wouldnt kid me on that would you? sodium, potassium, and other similar metals are also mined as salt compounds, and the metal and chlorine are separated out from each other. remember these are unstable elements, and nature prefers stability, thus these elements will combine with other unstable elements to create stable compounds.

and lithium IS used in making batteries.
Well dayem!

I yield!

https://electrek.co/2017/12/12/batte...ric-car-range/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:03 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top