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I do think permanently barring them from voting should be part of any deal.
Agreed. There's no net benefit to the nation in bestowing the voting franchise on illegal aliens, obviously; doing so on top of removing the possibility of deportation would confer an unearned double benefit that would be clearly unfair to citizens (natural and naturalized) and legal immigrants alike.
Place the "Dreamers" in a special status where they won't be deported simply on the basis of their illegal presence in the country, but where they are permanently ineligible for naturalization. If all the "Dreamers" want is to be free from fear of deportation, then the status of permanent resident aliens sans voting rights should do the trick nicely.
A Pathway to Citizenship for Dreamers Should be Supported by Logical Conservatives
That would be a NO !!!
The best message for Trumps supporters to send is :
Stop all small donations to the RNC and Trump until the matter is settled.
It may be part of a negotiation strategy and it has put the Dems in the corner showing that DACA is a political issue they don't want solved. If the GOP caves and rewards DACA citizenship its a game changer.
Ok. So you didn't buy a property. It was dumped on you by irresponsible parents. You still rehabbed the property whether you knew it or not. Now that you've found out about the house your already paid for, you want to give it away for free?
.
There is no such thing as I rehabbed the property and didn't know it. The bills for its rehab came due on a regular basis. Property does not magically rehab itself.
There are a number of cases where people give away property. This occurs when it isn't worth paying the costs of keeping it. Check out Detroit sometime.
Another thread already had my compromise; come here 14 and under, you can stay but never be a citizen, or you can leave and get in line like everyone else and be a citizen.
Over 14 when you came here, you are to leave, but will not hold it against you if you leave by the scheduled date, you can still jump in line like everyone else.
I do not think these people should get special treatment over those who abide by US laws.
By allowing those who came here before 14 to remain here even without citizenship is still giving them special treatment. Guess what? They are of the child bearing age and their U.S. born kids would be deemed citizens and they'd vote Democrat when they reach adulthood. No thanks!
So - let me get this straight. Let's say you were brought here at age 6 by your parents. You didn't want to leave you friends and family but you had no choice. You grew up here; memories fade and you can't really even remember any other life.
But YOU ~ would suddenly at the age of 18 - self deport to a country you don't even know or remember.
Yeah. Sure you would. Every last one of you.
Countries are just big pieces of land. They know the culture and language of their homeland because they have practiced it with their parents....get real! That keeps the memory alive. They need to leave along with their parents and apply to come back legally.
When liberals start appealing to the personal characteristics of the people who represent a clear political problem and for whom a liberal outcome would vastly benefit the democrats, conservatives naturally and rightly recoil. Appealing to their "innocence" as children is a bad road to go down, politically speaking. It feels like a politically motivated manipulative argument because it is.
Yes, "we" paid to educate them due to an illegal immigration problem caused by by border control policies that were and are too liberal. Thus, to conservatives, being forced to educate them felt and feels like coercion.
Those aren't compelling enough reasons to grant citizenship.
The political problems and opportunity costs to citizens aren't worth whatever supposed (and unspecified) monies that they are worth. Though, I will also note that, the way our system is set up, technically all people are worth something to the economy if merely just for the increase in the credit and debt that the country can issue. That doesn't make every person who is sneaks in here from the second and third world an ethical or viable candidate for citizenship.
As if liberals allowed for that on the needed scale.
We're going to do it now. Better late than never.
Again, with the educational money thing. Perhaps if educating them didn't feel like political strong-arming in the first place then that argument would be viable. It does, and so it isn't.
We're good. Mexico needs a boost too. Consider it a gift.
It's a nice, if not tired, attempt at making a politically motivated argument using a financial argument that you perceive (or perhaps merely hope in an attempt o redirect conservative motivations) is a priority for conservatives.
It isn't. Our priority is the following: not to allow the democrats to benefit from a couple of million votes that stem from the illegal immigration issue caused by liberal politicians.
1. Your sense of Republicans being primarily a party of economics is faulty.
2. "A bunch of Republicans" also opposed Trump and the popular will of the conservative base.
Most of the conservatives in the nation hold the mainstream GOP in high contempt. A change is underway, bu it will be a few more election cycles before its complete.
3. Before, you said that you were not appealing to compassion. Now you say that you are.
Let me tell you this: you (and liberals in general) are ruining the good name of compassion every time you decide to appeal to it for political ends that benefit you. We don't care about your emotional appeals that are thinly wrapped manipulations in order to win politically.
I swear, its like being on a bus that never stops with a sociopath. The endless emotional manipulations are exhausting to this nation's sense of balance.
However, like anyone who lives with a sociopath, we have become numb to the manipulations over time.
Ah... there it is.
I should have guessed that a liberal couldn't go an entire argument without releasing the barely disguised simmering rage in the form of personal attacks.
You almost made it. In spite of my disagreements with the tacks taken in your general argument, I must say that it represented a rare sober response from a liberal on this board. Even if it was manipulative, for a while it attempted to make an actual argument. That was progress.
Until your bursting emotional control mechanism failed at the very end and the knives came out. So sad. Well, at least its easy to see you people coming. You aren't going to sneak up on anyone anytime soon, are you?
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.
While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense . . . .
It makes perfect sense. They are going to be a drain on our resources, and they are going to vote for the party that transfers resources from the more-productive to the less-productive.
It is bad for productive Americans, which means that in the long run it is bad for all Americans since the less-productive rely on the more-productive to subsidize their standard of living..
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