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Old 03-23-2018, 12:15 PM
 
26,788 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I couldn't care less about God.
And you don't need to.
It's just the way things are, whether we care or not.

Quote:
Capitalism is the only moral system because it promotes the universal human values: nonaggression, voluntary transaction and peaceful trade.
Bwa-ha-ha. Capitalism itself doesn't have any "morals." Morals in the developed capitalist societies are based on Christian values, ( or the leftovers of thereof.) Remove these values, and you'll have the cut throat third world version of capitalism.
As I've said, you are utterly confused on a subject.

Quote:
Socialism and communism are evil because they promote two worst human traits: jealousy and violence.
Wrong again. Jealousy and violence exist irrespectively of "communism" or "socialism." Sorry if your life experience in the society where those qualities prevail, scarred you for the rest of your life.

Quote:
Without exception, everything in socialism/communism can only be done via violence or threat of violence against peaceful people.
If you ever lived in a socialist society ( and I think you did) - that particular social formation DEFINITELY didn't come to remove "peaceful people" from power - far away from it.
However in DEVELOPED countries, where CAPITALISM has the benign form of mixed economy, the "sharing" is done through the civilized, peaceful form - i.e. through redistribution of taxes.
As I've said - you are utterly confused, and you keep on smearing your confusion all over this board)))
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,203 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14910
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

Capitalism itself doesn't have any "morals." Morals in the developed capitalist societies are based on Christian values, ( or the leftovers of thereof.) Remove these values, and you'll have the cut throat third world version of capitalism.
As I've said, you are utterly confused on a subject.
Capitalism is the reason the Native Americans were slaughtered and their land stolen. It is also the system that was directly responsible for slavery. There is nothing whatosoever moral about unregulated Capitalism.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:29 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,335 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I couldn't care less about God.

Capitalism is the only moral system because it promotes the universal human values: nonaggression, voluntary transaction and peaceful trade.

Socialism and communism are evil because they promote two worst human traits: jealousy and violence. Without exception, everything in socialism/communism can only be done via violence or threat of violence against peaceful people.
Capitalism by its nature relies on exploitation. Pure capitalism left unregulated will result in corporate oligarchs who will abuse and exploit its workers and customers. Which is why we need strong civil institutions to provide checks and balances to hold capitalism in place and not let it get to the point where it becomes tyrannical. A good example of that is child labor laws. When left unregulated companies had no issues overworking and underpaying small children in dangerous and unhealthy work conditions.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:03 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Capitalism by its nature relies on exploitation. Pure capitalism left unregulated will result in corporate oligarchs who will abuse and exploit its workers and customers. Which is why we need strong civil institutions to provide checks and balances to hold capitalism in place and not let it get to the point where it becomes tyrannical. A good example of that is child labor laws. When left unregulated companies had no issues overworking and underpaying small children in dangerous and unhealthy work conditions.
Define exploitation.

You voluntarily entering a transaction is not exploitation.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:04 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Capitalism is the reason the Native Americans were slaughtered and their land stolen. It is also the system that was directly responsible for slavery. There is nothing whatosoever moral about unregulated Capitalism.
Put in the historical context, the land never belonged to the natives.

The land always belonged to those who had bigger guns.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:46 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Define exploitation.

You voluntarily entering a transaction is not exploitation.
Exploitation being your worker makes you $100 an hour, you pay him $20. The whole of the capitalist system is predicated on exploitation. A moral Capitalist systems only works if the workers have power to hold the owner or boss in check to insure they withhold their part of the agreement.

Taking advantage of poor and desperate people in need of money for food and shelter can very much be exploitation. Even if they agree to it voluntarily. Prior to 1900 mining companies would pay desperate and poor miners in company money that could only be used at the company store. The company store would then charge marked up rates for basic necessities that would cost more then what the miner made in company money. The miner would then go into debt to the mining company thus locking him into a state of servitude. The miner would thus be a slave to the mining company. So the miners options were stave to death or be a slave. While his decision to work for the mining company may have been voluntary it is never the less complete exploitation.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,035 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Exploitation being your worker makes you $100 an hour, you pay him $20. The whole of the capitalist system is predicated on exploitation. A moral Capitalist systems only works if the workers have power to hold the owner or boss in check to insure they withhold their part of the agreement.
Very well said one of the reasons I stopped being a libertarian. I recognized the naivety that they preach regarding capitalism with libertarianism or anarcho capitalism you are far less free unless you are one of the holy wealthy. Those societies literally nothing would hold the capitalists to task if they go to far.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,203 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14910
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Put in the historical context, the land never belonged to the natives.

The land always belonged to those who had bigger guns.
If I shoot you and take your house, then, I have demonstrated my moral superiority as a capitalist.

Got it.
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:05 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Exploitation being your worker makes you $100 an hour, you pay him $20. The whole of the capitalist system is predicated on exploitation. A moral Capitalist systems only works if the workers have power to hold the owner or boss in check to insure they withhold their part of the agreement.

Taking advantage of poor and desperate people in need of money for food and shelter can very much be exploitation. Even if they agree to it voluntarily. Prior to 1900 mining companies would pay desperate and poor miners in company money that could only be used at the company store. The company store would then charge marked up rates for basic necessities that would cost more then what the miner made in company money. The miner would then go into debt to the mining company thus locking him into a state of servitude. The miner would thus be a slave to the mining company. So the miners options were stave to death or be a slave. While his decision to work for the mining company may have been voluntary it is never the less complete exploitation.
Consensual sex is not rape. You don’t need to accept that $20 if you don’t like. If you accept it without coercion, it’s not exploitation.
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:06 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
If I shoot you and take your house, then, I have demonstrated my moral superiority as a capitalist.

Got it.
That’s precisely the moral superiority of socialism and communism.
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