The Problem With Trump's Wrecking Ball Approach To NATO.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by LauraC

Think of the other countries like deadbeat dads who don't pay child support but still expect to see their kid.

Are you going to let the ex continue to walk all over you?

I think the solution is very simple. The US should pay the same percent Germany pays of GDP and see if they and the other deadbeat dads squeal.

If it wasn't for Trump being Trump we would never know Germany is in bed with Russia on oil, the same country we're supposed to be protecting them from. God knows, the news media would never report it. I don't say they have to get their oil from us. They could always make a deal with Canada, for example. But they don't because someone is getting rich from it.

NATO is not something we all pay in to, nor is it something that we owe debts towards.

Each country had the ability to set their own defence budget, and in terms of European countries the majority of this budget is in relation to dealing with the threat posed by Russia and terrorism.

To this end European NATO countries pay $270 Billion in defence spending per year, which is more than the $70 Billion Russian expenditure or the $175 Billion Chinese Defence expenditure, indeed European NATO members spend more on defence than Russia and China combined, and are the largest defence spenders after the US itself.

In terms of the US, it's Defence Budget covers a lot of diverse roles at home and in the world, and only a small percentage of the US Defence budget is in relation to Europe, possible two or three percent. The other 98% has nothing to do with Europe.

Whilst in terms of US Active Service Personnel, around 5% are based in Europe, the other 95% having nothing to do with Europe's defence.

The US does not own the bases in Europe, they are merely classed as visiting forces, they do however get access to intelligence, logistics, medical support, naval support and many of the bases are more to do with projecting US Power in the Middle East, North Africa, Parts of Asia and in relation to Russia itself.

The bases actually save the US money, as operations would be far more expensive wthout them and the same forces would cost even more to bring back home and house, as European countries often pay in kind by providing services for free to US Forces. The Germans provide around $1 Billion in services and are curently building new schools for US Forces.

As for the 2% it is not legally binding, it's just a guideline to work towards by 2024, and NATO countries do not owe the US anything. Most NATO countries have been increasing defence budgets since the 2014 guidelines ad many have grouped together to form new reaction forces and to invest in more interoperability.

The US actually gets a good deal from NATO, and don't let the Donald tell you otherwise, indeed Congress realises this, as do the Pentagon.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by reed067

First, it was important to see the substance of what the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has accomplished as of the summit this week, since the historic NATO summit in Warsaw just two years ago. The achievements include the adaptation of the NATO command structure, which will significantly improve the reinforcement and responsiveness capabilities of the alliance.


Members have also renewed commitment to increased defense expenditures and investment and made progress on improving military mobility, as well as beginning the process toward Macedonia's eventual membership.


NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has done a superb job of shepherding the members, keeping all on track and building momentum toward real substance. We are lucky to have him.


But second, I was disappointed to see President Trump bring a wrecking ball to Brussels. He publicly HUMILATED our most important allies and then, the following day, said everything was GREAT, that he had a great relationship with the chancellor of Germany and that he was personally responsible for the money that was "pouring into NATO."


Whatever happened to positive, unifying leadership by the president of the United States?


https://www.npr.org/2018/07/13/62878...proach-to-nato

"Members have also renewed commitment to increased defense expenditures and investment" as they have sad for DECADES and NEVER came through.

How many times does someone have to lie to you before you don't trust what they say anymore?

"He publicly HUMILATED our most important allies " Thank you YOUR you very biased Opinion.

Even if he did, maybe it will FINALLY get them to do what they say about how much money they promised to pay.

"Sometimes you have to hit a jackass over the head with a 2 x 4 in order to get his ATTENTION'!

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by moneill

I think first and foremost is that Trump doesn't understand how it works OR he chooses to purposely mislead Americans on how it works.

When you start with that -- whatever he says after lacks any credibility or integrity.

It is clear after two NATO summits, Trump's style of leadership isn't working.

He hasn't been able to get the allies to come to any major agreement like they did in 2014.

Doesn't matter if his fans think he is being strategic, purposely being nasty, etc......the end result is what counts...and it is failing.

The problem now -- we are becoming comfortably numb with his insults. Nobody even bothers to fight back...they just let him yanner away and they do nothing.

Oh well......maybe he will have better luck making friends with Putin....because we all want to be friends with Putin.

"I think first and foremost is that Trump doesn't understand how it works" And YOU DO!


YOU should run for the presidency and THEN you can do it YOUR way!


"we are becoming comfortably numb with his insults."


Many of us will NEVER be "numb" with the insults the left had been throwing at US fro DECADES.


"What is good for the goose, is good for the gander!"

[brownbagg]

NATO is just for one reason, to keep Russia at bay, and now we are trying to be buddies with Russia. There no reason today for mayo to exist except to have U.S. bases in other Europe countries. We could do away with bato and the world would keep putting along like nothing ever happen. So why should they fund nato