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Old 10-05-2018, 10:07 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
Reputation: 6059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
Different skills pay different wages. Hair dressing is not worth $28/hr and we don't live in Cuba. Sorry to break it to you.
Mail carrying is worth $28 an hour because thats what the typical mail carrier gets, right? This is the power of labor unions. Labor unions are banned in Cuba. Oligarchs and their right wing puppets love to see that happen here as well. They are trying to make it as difficult as possible to organize. Because they know its a threat to their own power and privilege.

What people are "worth" all depends on who has the power. Employers pay whatever they can get away with. Not what someone is "worth".
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:11 AM
 
2,359 posts, read 1,035,774 times
Reputation: 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post


Haha. The jokes on the employees. They eliminated stock awards and bonuses for those employees. Amazon is evil.

Imagine that...you get a raise in your hourly rate, and as a result, you're taking a pay cut overall.


I guess the $15.00/hour crowd never saw that coming, huh?
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:20 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,227,035 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
Different skills pay different wages. Hair dressing is not worth $28/hr and we don't live in Cuba. Sorry to break it to you.
Actually, Hair Dressing is a business that should pay a good rate... Try to go and take care of business or work in a high profile business environment without "ungroomed and maintained hair".
One likely won't even get past the interview process.

I don't get why people want to diminish what others earn? There is no more the days of $2 hair cuts, maybe one may want to look at the fact of what Hair Dresser deal with, because they have the same responsibility of home, kids and living standards, they have to buy their own medical, dental and they have to pay for their automobile for transportation and the insurance it takes to drive it. they have to pay taxes, they have to buy their products they service the customer with and their equipment needs to be maintained and often upgraded. They stand on their feet for long hours, which means they have to care for their health and that of their family.
I'm continually amazed at what people "disrespect about and of others". and how lowly their regard is for the living standards of others.

People don't just cut hair, they go to school and that school generally takes them 2 yrs to get a license, to groom and cut hair.

Mail Carriers, I'd like to see some of the people on this forum go out and walk from house to house 'everyday" they work, and then come back and tell us how the work is not worth being paid a good wage.

Temp Agencies make a lot of money off of people. But do they provide any benefits? Generally, No... they may give vacation to people with long term placement, and they are mandated by law to have workers compensation policy. Companies benefit greatly from "Temp Agency Workers".... and some people work for years upon years within and through an agency's jobs connections.

We are a sad society with so many who disrespect so much when it comes to others.

The best thing I did see when it comes to people being proud of their jobs, has been overseas, where people do these jobs and they respect each other who have the variety of jobs which exist. Here in America, we have the madness of "history" still invoking madness in our society when it comes to people and work.

Fact is... when everyone is paid a living standard wage, everyone does better, business do better and communities do better and industry does better. No one can function on a Minimum wage income. If they want to have that... then establish it for "School Children who work part time after school".. but they cannot displace the necessary adult workers positions.

I worked when in High School, actually had several different jobs. I was paid less than the full time adult workers, and it was functional because I lived at home and as a kid did not have the expense of home upkeep and such things.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
If the wage growth for workers is zero percent even with low unemployment, the system is broken for the working class of America. Bakers, ambulance drivers, cooks and hair dressers make $12 an hour. Mail carriers make $28 an hour. Ask yourself why?

Just replying with knee jerk reactions about Joe Sixpack being lazy and the working stiffs dont deserve anything else is just tone deaf. Heading towards a third world society where ordinary workers are getting crushed and a tiny super rich elite rule with an iron fist is something that should elicit a pro-worker response. The answer is to strengthen labor unions, get big money out of politics, provide health care as a right for all citizens and make public education and trade schools tuition free.
There was a place/ time for unions. They lifted the masses onto the lower rungs of the middle economic class for a blip in time.

Private sector unions peaked 60+ years ago. There’s a reason for that.

Since the 70’s, more jobs have been eliminated by custom industrial robotics and technology substitution than were offshored. There’s a reason for that.

More than half the states are now Right to Work states. There’s a reason for that.

Deloitte & Touché conducts periodic servers of global CEOs in a variety of sectors. Last time they surveyed global CEOs in the manufacturing sector, including China, was late 2015. At the time, there was no certainty who would be nominated , let alone win, in 2016. And it most certainly did not take a possible trade war into consideration.

It concluded the US would reclaim the top spot in global manufacturing by 2020. The conclusion was supported by the vast pipeline for custom industrial robotics, placed by US manufacturers.

Assuming the projection is realized, whomever was elected in 2016 it is certain he/ she would take credit for it, despite a momentum that substantially preceded their election.

China is the world’s greatest consumer for commercial jetliners. Boeing’s future depends on the pipeline of business from China. Should the trade war with China escalate, there is a distinct possibility China will begin to cancel orders with Boeing. Airbus would be delighted to fill the void.

US unions won’t protect jobs lost to the competition due to a trade war.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:00 AM
 
4,481 posts, read 2,287,481 times
Reputation: 4092
Ok well I'm not reading that WOT. There are different levels of hair dressers. On average they shouldn't get paid $28/hr.

Labor unions let people be unaccountable for their performance. You don't get 1:1 when you can't fire underperforming employees. Labor unions had a time and place, now they make everything costly.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:19 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,966,079 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
Ok well I'm not reading that WOT. There are different levels of hair dressers. On average they shouldn't get paid $28/hr.

Labor unions let people be unaccountable for their performance. You don't get 1:1 when you can't fire underperforming employees. Labor unions had a time and place, now they make everything costly.
So why do mail carriers make $28 an hour and taxi drivers, cooks and hair dressers make $12 an hour?

"Labor unions had a time and a place", really?

Now we must get rid of labor unions and let workers fight their fight alone?

Thats just corporate propaganda. Without labor unions, the lone worker is like a lone ranger up against a well equipped platoon. The worker will get crushed. Thats what we're seeing in America. 40 years of destruction of the labor unions, starting from the late 1970s has led to exactly the designed outcome. Massive inequality, extreme corruption, zero wage growth for the typical worker and the destruction of the working class. This leads to political radicalization, which is what we're seeing now. Its perfectly predictable. Labor unions civilize society like nothing else and make people trust public institutions to a much larger extent. When union power is destroyed, the political system run into the arms of the billionaire class and will serve their interests, not the interests of Joe Sixpack.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,942,745 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Mail carrying is worth $28 an hour because thats what the typical mail carrier gets, right? This is the power of labor unions. Labor unions are banned in Cuba. Oligarchs and their right wing puppets love to see that happen here as well. They are trying to make it as difficult as possible to organize. Because they know its a threat to their own power and privilege.

What people are "worth" all depends on who has the power. Employers pay whatever they can get away with. Not what someone is "worth".
Excellent post!
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,758,281 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
People run around and hail the Executive with their support of the CEO's making 360+ times what the workers earn, and then they back and support the giving of "stock options" ...... Yet, Amazon raised the pay, but took away bonuses and employee stock program. Why did they not simply raise the pay, and sustain the program of bonuses and stock programs.
The question is? did they improve the employees medical benefits, did they make any contribution to employees pensions, or do they even have a pension program that benefits the employee? Additionally, why was the stock program not set and and/or continued as a format of pension for the employees?

These rabid types who detest seeing people paid for their labor are all over the place and trying to destroy or bury that fact does not change the point and fact these types exist.

Go to any city council in any city, and you will see them "fighting against progress", you will see them talking about how something use to be, as if they think it will give them a remake of the white nationalist and white privilege dominance that was vile against women, minorities and the wage and living conditions of women, minorities and immigrants.

Some of them have the mindset of the days of the "mule and plow", with some worn out coveralls and a plaid shirt, as if they think that's some symbol of who to respect. They have the demeanor of still trying to live in a mentality framework of the 1930's and 1940's... as their concept of America. These are the same types who worship with submission anyone they see in a shirt and tie, and they are ready to bow down to anyone wearing a suit, shirt and tie. It's the most darn'st thing ever. These types continue to resent seeing people paid a living wage with benefits for their work.

Walmart flooded America with imports, but you won't find any Walmart's in the well to do communities!!! I've seen it over and over, "Walmart comes in with a duping plan, to delude unaware local politicians, as if they plan to "staff all the excess registers they install"... and NEVER not even during holiday rush will one see all the register's staffed.


Regarding Company Responsibility: the new ideology of the greed promotion as if companies don't have a responsibility beyond stock holder. The company was not designed to be beholding to the stock holder, the stock holder is an investor who sees an opportunity to invest... they assume the risk in doing so. It is not a designed that is solely driven to enrich the investor.. Its about "LONG TERM STABILITY", MANAGED GROWTH" and Providing a quality service to the people that is what an investor is or should be investing in. Not some delusion that every quarter it has to break a record...
Primary reason anyone invests in anything is to make a $. If an investment is not producing the desired ROI, investors will buy something else with greater potential for a ROI. Shareholders elect senior officers with the objective of increasing shareholder value. If this C- Suite can’t, it will be replaced with another who will.

Everything sold by Walmart can be bought eleswhere. Consumers vote with their wallets and don’t particularly care the source of goods.

There tends to be limited retail shopping in the wealthiest communities in the US. Walmart targets the middle economic class, whatever the middle is, in any given geographical location. There is an absence of retail in the poorest communities throughout the US.

Consumers increasingly prefer to shop online than in brick & mortar stores. Everything sold by Walmart can be bought online from other sources. Nearly half of units sold by Amazon are sold by independent businesses who use Amazon to advertise and fill orders. They would not be able to compete , if it was necessary to have a brick and mortar operation. They certainly could not reach a national audience of consumers with a single brick and mortar operation.

Amazon made the business decision to offer a starting wage more than 2x the Federal Minimum Wage. Reportedly, the average tenure of a warehouse employee is 9-12 months. As such, the majority of Amazon’s employees never vest. As such, the majority of Amazon’s warehouse employees are not eligible for performance incentive awards. Amazon determined employees value the certainty of a higher wage more so than the uncertainty of vesting and incentive awards.

Amazon employees become eligible for subsidized healthcare and medication coverage after working the hourly equivalent of 3 months. Amazon subsidizes 100% of the premium for the employee. Not going to find too many other employers who can match this.

As it relates to pensions.... at one time 88% of private sector employers who offered a retirement income benefit, offered a defined benefit pension. That number is now in the 18% range. Amazon, like most large scale employers, offers a 401k with matching.

Most corporations are not publicly- traded. There may be one or more shareholders and it’s all about maximizing shareholder value, no different than a publicly- traded corporation.
They employ few, if any people. Small employers are exempt from ACA and don’t necessarily offer benefits to employees.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:53 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,022 posts, read 2,275,405 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Great post.

Unfortunately it’s not about right or wrong. It’s about how to force you people to cough up more money or die.
So if you or someone else with a higher paying job gets a raise is that forcing people to cough up more money or does it just apply to people who do certain jobs? Why are not saying that managers that get a bonus or pay raise are forcing their employer to pay them more it seems like the only time you protest about pay raises is when it is people doing lower wage jobs getting them. If you want to know why people should get raises there is a couple of reasons like wages should be adjusted with inflation and they have not, it gives people more money to spend into the economy, and it diminishes the people on government welfare.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:12 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,888,047 times
Reputation: 25341
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
No shortage of reports that Amazon performance quotas were near impossible to meet.

No shortage of reports that the average tenure at Amazon warehouses was 9-12months. If remotely true, it means the average warehouse employee does not vest and is not eligible for incentive awards.

So now some employees claim they will net less income.

Given the hundreds of thousands of people employed at Amazon warehouses, it’s reasonable to assume there is tremendous variation in perception.

Amazon determined employees favored the certainty of a higher wage to waiting for vesting and/ or exceeding performance targets, thus they increased the starting wage.

Best I can tell, Amazon continues to offer the “ paid to quit” financial incentive to employees who are miserable. They are fee to quit and find comparable full time, low skill, physically demanding work elsewhere than pays more and provides healthcare and tuition reimbursement.


I think you forgot to include the physical toll that being a fulfillment operator took from many people working those jobs--
Long hours on hard floors with stressful motions and few breaks
Many people's bodies broke down because of the physical and emotional stress
And of course no union contracts
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