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The largest single founding component of the Libertarian Party was composed of campus conservatives who broke with the conservative mainstream of the day -- mostly in opposition to the religious and nationalistic absolutes, linked to coercive movements of the day (1965-70) such as military conscription (the draft). Opposition to drug laws and censorship was based mostly on suspicion of centralized government power, rather than personal tastes. Sexual orientation and similar issues would not emerge (at least, not too far) for about another decade, but as they did, the libertarians clearly identified with the responsible individual, rather than the Bible-thumpers and fig-leaf-hangers.
Karl Marx predicted that once a communistic society was established there would be a "withering away of the state"; and while Ayn Rand never said so directly, many of her most fervent disciples believe in an anarcho-capitalist "society without coercion".
In the Real World, neither Utopia came to pass.
As a "reformed" libertarian, I can acknowledge the need for a basic "safety net" and, as with a decennial census, the need t monitor the economy's performance and effects on a nationwide basis; [U}but the problem here is how to police that safety-net[/u] against an apparently-growing number who seek to abuse it.
And admittedly, a large part of the issue springs from the fact that that increasing component of aging burn-outs sees itself as having little or no "skin in the game", and that our superficial youth-and-glamour-obsessed media, hiding within its bi-coastal enclaves, offers little or no direct incentives for foresight -- preferring instead to pander to class envy and economic naivete',
Every successful entrepreneur, large or small, knows that the secret to developing a successful enterprise is to generate income and to convert as much as possible of that income into capital; but it's difficult to get employees on the same page in our "consumerist" society.
Based on what actual facts do you see this "apparently growing number"? It's more likely "apparent" because right wing media and social media created by right wingers implies that it is the case when it most likely isn't.
Wealth continues to move up the ladder, not down. Of course in that situation you have more people who fall into the safety net. You have the whole "50% of the people pay no federal income taxes!" meme.
50% of the people don't make Jack squat. The median household income is 60K.
If my household income is 3 or 4 times that, am I really going to cry about it?
Based on what actual facts do you see this "apparently growing number"?
The contaminated streets of our West Coast cities seem to serve as pretty conclusive proof. The losers would rather dream of Malibu than go back to Dubuque and deal with realities.
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It's more likely "apparent" because right wing media and social media created by right wingers implies that it is the case when it most likely isn't.
Your use of the term "right wing" to broad-brush anyone who doesn't buy into your fantasies determines just who's the stereotype-peddling bigot in these parts.
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Wealth continues to move up the ladder, not down. Of course in that situation you have more people who fall into the safety net. You have the whole "50% of the people pay no federal income taxes!" meme
First, much of that wealth, though it's newly-created, is illusory. the fortunes of people like Gates, Bezos, Page and Brin is represented mostly by the speculative-interest-inflated value of common stock, often selling at twenty, or more times its "book value" (real estate, plant, equipment and inventory / number of shares).As expectations fall into line with reality, it will erode.
And second, when those individuals pass from the scene, most of that wealth will pass into the control of the non-profit philanthropic sector, which will do a better job of management than the public-sector tax-grabbers.
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50% of the people don't make Jack squat. The median household income is 60K.
And it's always been that way, and always will be. -- and in any open society, Extreme business talent (even when it isn't related to a specific situation) and success isn't evenly distributed -- just as with entertainers, athletes, and others of whom, for whatever reason, you're not quite so jealous. And talent can't be seized and "redistributed".
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If my household income is 3 or 4 times that, am I really going to cry about it?
.
So I suppose your "answer" is a European-modeled welfare-state -- stagnant, with regard to true progress, but always looking for a bigger "problem" that demands a bigper staff and budget, In this scenario, most of the fruits of everyone's labor is squandered by bureaucrats, and the individual has little incentive to improve him/herself.
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Originally Posted by dman72
You're doing a pretty good job stereotyping yourself(*) with your diatribes and presumptions. It all wreaks of talk radio/'I just read rich dad poor" dad epiphany bull****, the same tripe we get again and again from the "rugged individuals" on this site.
*A stereotype can exist only in the mind of the dupe who buys into it, and the deceiver who peddles it.
I grew up in a dairy-farming family, not particularly prominent; we never hired more than one or two people (and you don't seek highly-skilled labor, for reasons which should be obvious).
And my original conservative orientation came from a group of emerging campus libertarians during the late Sixties; we read Murray Rothbard and Karl Hess as well as Ayn Rand and William Buckley, and most of our early struggles were to distance ourselves from the deceitful Bible-thumping stereotype peddled by the likes of you,
And it was my late father, and not I myself, who idolized Rush Limbaugh; he can articulate his more-logical points as well as anyone, but he has to preach to his "back-benchers" as well; I'm just not one of them.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-17-2018 at 02:08 PM..
The contaminated streets of our West Coast cities seem to serve as pretty conclusive proof.
Your use of the term "right wing" to broad-brush anyone who doesn't buy into your fantasies determines just who's' the stereotype-peddling bigot in these parts.
First, much of that wealth, though it's newly-created, is illusory. the fortunes of people like Gates, Bezos, Page and Brin is represented mostly by the speculative-interest-inflated value of common stock, often selling at twenty, or more times its "book value" (real estate, plant, equipment and inventory / number of shares).
As expectations fall into line with reality, it will erode.
And second, when those individuals pass from the scene, most of that wealth will pass into the control of the non-profit philanthropic sector, which will do a better job of management than the public-sector tax-grabbers.
And it's always been that way, and always will be. Extreme business talent and success isn't evenly distributed -- just as with entertainers, athletes, and others of whom, for whatever reason, you're not quite so jealous. And talent can't be seized and "redistributed".
.
So I suppose your "answer" is a European-modeled welfare-state. where most of the fruits of everyone's labor is squandered by bureaucrats, and the individual has little incentive to improve him/herself?
You're doing a pretty good job stereotyping yourself with your diatribes and presumptions. It all wreaks of talk radio/'I just read rich dad poor" dad epiphany bull****, the same tripe we get again and again from the "rugged individuals" on this site.
The Democrats are FAR worse than the Republicans when it comes to demonizing people. We saw that with Judge Kavanaugh, but it's been going on for decades.
I'm not sure about that. I keep hearing that democrats want open borders, which is far from the truth. Just look at the crap they said about Obama - that he was a Muslim, that he wasn't born in the US, that he hated America - none of it even remotely true. No, I'd say it's about equal.
This is why they're such a big political divide in America. Too many people believe the extreme hype about the opposing party.
The outrage machine generates more clicks. More clicks generate more revenue.
I do not believe that all Dems are communists. I do believe that the loudest are communists, and I also believe that those who give them a pass for their actions are sympathizers, which is just as bad. I believe that there are still Dems out there who may think more with feelings than logic, but do not think that they want this country to fall to ruin with socialism or communism.
I do not believe all Repubicans are racists. I do believe that there are racists in the Republican party (as well as on the left - despite how much they pretend they don't have any), but the ones who get the attention are the ones who are the loudest. Of course, one would have to be honest about the definition of "racist". Being proud of who you are and where you came from is not "racist", and saying that you don't owe anyone, Jews or black people, anything at all for what happened in the past is also not "racist". Not that it stops people from throwing that word out there whenever they can't debate a topic.
But the media sure likes to play it up like that's what these 2 sides are, and the idiots fall for it, day in, day out. Because, as you said, it makes them money.
I'd like to see people on every side finally realize and admit that ALL media in this country is completely and totally biased. ALL of it.
I'm not sure about that. I keep hearing that democrats want open borders, which is far from the truth. Just look at the crap they said about Obama - that he was a Muslim, that he wasn't born in the US, that he hated America - none of it even remotely true. No, I'd say it's about equal.
If Democrats don't want open borders, where is their border security bill? I'd love to see it.
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