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I wonder if Trump supporters would still feel the lying to investigators crime is "bogus" if someone from Hillary or Obama's campaign team were indicted on that charge.
Rhetorical answer, because we already know the answer. #hypocrisy
I wonder if Trump supporters would still feel the lying to investigators crime is "bogus" if someone from Hillary or Obama's campaign team were indicted on that charge.
Rhetorical answer, because we already know the answer. #hypocrisy
I absolutely would, have and still do feel that way. I would advise a liberal same as I would anyone else. Say nothing, because there is nothing but downside in any other course of action.
Change one word of an official statement that is 300 pages long, and they have you on false official statement, lying to an agent, perjury and obstruction. Just change one freaking word, even if it is one word among millions.
Anything said will be used against you. As MikeBear points out, it is right there in your Miranda reminder - there is no upside for you to speak. Doing so provides them with the means to hurt you. They basically tell you...hell, they damn near beg you...to keep your yap shut, forever.
If I was counsel for anyone of any party/belief/ideology, no matter what they stood accused of, I would tell them to never speak any words other than "I plead the 5th" and "I wish to speak with my attorney privately." Not ever. Not in an interview room, not in a courtroom, not in front of reporters, nothing, never, no way, no how.
If the prosecution has sufficient evidence such that they feel they can successfully prosecute someone, then they have no need to talk to them for any reason other than threats and entrapment. Period. Never say a word.
But that doesn't explain Lewis 'Scooter' Libby and Martha Stewart.
I forgot all about that! Stewart was entrapped in the exact manor Stone has been.
One of the wealthiest women in the world and she got caught up in an inadvertent lie. She did nothing wrong but they wanted to make an example of her. Again, all for optics with justice being ignored.
Greywar is a stalwart defender of Mueller and the FBI handling of the arrest, even though it's painfully clear he's on the wrong side of this argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty
I wonder if Trump supporters would still feel the lying to investigators crime is "bogus" if someone from Hillary or Obama's campaign team were indicted on that charge.
Rhetorical answer, because we already know the answer. #hypocrisy
THAT IS HILARIOUS! Claiming hypocrisy based on thoughts in your head.
Anyone with a brain knows that no Dem will ever be arrested for lying. It has only been Republicans who have been railroaded. Hillary and her click of gangsters were protected and given immunity.
BTW, it doesn't matter to me what party affiliation one has. If this unconstitutional BS happens to anyone else I will be the first to stand up with them against the tyranny.
You better save that hashtag for yourself.
Last edited by Originalist; 01-30-2019 at 12:04 PM..
It's not nonsense according to John Dowd, Trump's ex-lawyer, who was a US Attorney and has represented numerous high-profile clients including John McCain. See what Dowd says in Fear by Bob Woodward.
Are you claiming better legal expertise than Dowd?
I can easily point to dozens of legal scholars saying he is wrong. So yes. By my mere ability to look at folks who do this as a living, and who talk about it and explain it. Vs's someone who is more known for his tv commentary. I also don't get medical advice from Dr Oz. Do you?
Perjury is very hard to prove generally. If you look at Stone he is attempting the "I forgot" defense. which honestly normally is pretty effective.....except in this case it involves things he did sometimes on the same day he stated he didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t
So what Comey/Fitzgerald did to Scooter Libby is fine in yours?
Libby was convicted in the case of the outing of CIA employee Valerie Plame. Her name appeared in a column by Bob Novak in the Washington Post. He got it from Richard Armitage, not Libby. Armitage was never prosecuted. Novak also was not convicted, although it cost him several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees to keep himself clear.
It turned out that the outing of Plame was not even a crime under the relevant law, because she wasn't a covert agent. She had been outed years before by a Russian mole (Aldrich Ames) and thus was not eligible for covert work.
Libby had nothing to do with her outing in any case, yet he was convicted (and pardoned by Trump).
Yes and no. Yes I am perfectly fine with it. A jury agreed that he knowingly lied. BUT...I am not fine about the fact that others didn't go to jail. Libby was the fall guy-even members of his jury felt that way. But the facts of the matter still came down to that the jury didn't believe him when he claimed he didn't remember a fact he was told at least 9 times, and that his lying had a material impact. But perhaps they didn't get prosecuted as it wasnt a crime as you point out. I think President Bush was right to commute his sentence, but Trump was wrong to pardon him. As Bush said when he did it:
Quote:
First of all, the Scooter Libby decision was, I thought, a fair and balanced decision.
The guy was guilty. So yeah, commit a crime, get sentenced. I thought the sentence was overly harsh-something President Bush also felt. Bet the sentence was absolutely deserved.
Let's be honest. If you are a liberal, you think it's ok to charge someone with lying and if you are a conservative you are mostly likely outraged by the treatment of Stone. Why waste time arguing it?
The guy was guilty. So yeah, commit a crime, get sentenced. I thought the sentence was overly harsh-something President Bush also felt. Bet the sentence was absolutely deserved.
Do you believe a senior citizen with no record of criminal behavior required 29 officers armed with long guns, two boats, and a helicopter? Do you believe all people accused of lying deserve such a needless display of force?
You do realize that when a force like that is used the risk of someone getting shot goes way up, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl
Let's be honest. If you are a liberal, you think it's ok to charge someone with lying and if you are a conservative you are mostly likely outraged by the treatment of Stone. Why waste time arguing it?
That's so sad if true. I remember when it was the liberals who were outraged by government abuse of power. Now, they defend it.
I forgot all about that! Stewart was entrapped in the exact manor Stone has been.
One of the wealthiest women in the world and she got caught up in an inadvertent lie. She did nothing wrong but they wanted to make an example of her.
She went to prison for making a false statement to an investigator about an incident that never occurred.
It was logically and practically equivalent to lying about what happened when you invaded the unicorn farm on Jupiter...and then being sent to prison for it. No crime ever took place with Stewart OTHER THAN making a false official statement, from which they ginned up the charges that sent her away to prison.
WE WILL USE ANYTHING YOU SAY AGAINST YOU.
Memo to anyone and everyone - don't freaking say anything, especially when the person you are talking to has given you a formal guarantee that they are going to use everything you say against you.
She went to prison for making a false statement to an investigator about an incident that never occurred.
It was logically and practically equivalent to lying about what happened when you invaded the unicorn farm on Jupiter...and then being sent to prison for it. No crime ever took place with Stewart OTHER THAN making a false official statement, from which they ginned up the charges that sent her away to prison.
WE WILL USE ANYTHING YOU SAY AGAINST YOU.
Memo to anyone and everyone - don't freaking say anything, especially when the person you are talking to has given you a formal guarantee that they are going to use everything you say against you.
So intentionally lying to a federal investigator should be OK if the thing you're lying about never actually happened? I'm not sure I follow your logic there.
I wonder if Trump supporters would still feel the lying to investigators crime is "bogus" if someone from Hillary or Obama's campaign team were indicted on that charge.
Rhetorical answer, because we already know the answer. #hypocrisy
You should already have known the answer. Martha Stewart was a liberal and lifelong Democrat. There was consternation over her indictment from both right and left back atcha!
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#hypocrisy
