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View Poll Results: What's your opinon regarding the 'lying to investigators' charge?
liberal: It should be used infrequently if ever. 1 2.04%
liberal: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 2 4.08%
liberal: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 3 6.12%
conservative: It should be used infrequently if ever. 10 20.41%
conservative: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 5 10.20%
conservative: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 5 10.20%
independent: It should be used infrequently if ever. 7 14.29%
independent: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 9 18.37%
independent: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 6 12.24%
other (please explain below). 1 2.04%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2019, 04:41 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261

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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
No it makes little to no sense. From the very first sentence, it is gibberish:
"When the judge said that EVEN IF TRUE, there was no criminal case, and dismissed it. " What judge said what, and dismissed what?

PUI, I'm guessing. I know from previous posts that you are more intelligent than this.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...ton-jones.html
Quote:
"While the alleged incident in the hotel, if true, was certainly boorish and offensive," said Judge Wright, she found that "the governor's alleged conduct does not constitute sexual assault."
BTW-the governor in this case is Clinton. If you know im more intelligent then this you could have at least TRIED to google it.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:54 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,389,243 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
But you can indict them after they leave office. Impeachment is a political matter.
Of course. Impeachment would have been the mechanism to remove him from office, obviously. That failed, so he stayed in office. No sense in Travis wondering why a sitting President wasn't brought up on lying to federal investigators charges.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:59 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,884,675 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCbaxter View Post
If there’s no crime, why lie?
Ask our elected reps. They can't seem to tell the complete truth about anything. In fact they even at some point passed a law to protect themselves from consequences if they use the Senate floor to lie.

If they are allowed to lie to us, shouldn't we be allowed to lie to them?

This whole "he lied to congress thing?" They lie to us constantly, we should be able to lie to them in return.
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,219 posts, read 22,376,569 times
Reputation: 23858
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
So here's a question for you. Bill Clinton lied under oath about his dalliance with Monica.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/...17-1998-226998

Presumably Starr could have gone after him for perjury, but declined to do so. Clinton lost his law license, but faced no charges. Do you think he should have? If not, why Libby and Stewart, but not Clinton?
Yes. I agree Clinton should have lost his license.

Prosecution for perjury was Starr's option, and his decision was well within his authority.

It would have been very problematic to try to convict a sitting President who did lie, but lied about something that wasn't a criminal offense. The sex was consensual, and both were adults.
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Of course. Impeachment would have been the mechanism to remove him from office, obviously. That failed, so he stayed in office. No sense in Travis wondering why a sitting President wasn't brought up on lying to federal investigators charges.
The indictment would have taken place following his exit from the white house.

Let's try another question for the apologists out there. Was it the right course for the GOP House to impeach Clinton over this??? At the time, my view was not just no, but hell no. What about you apologists? And if not, why convict Libby, but not impeach Clinton?
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Yes. I agree Clinton should have lost his license.

Prosecution for perjury was Starr's option, and his decision was well within his authority.

It would have been very problematic to try to convict a sitting President who did lie, but lied about something that wasn't a criminal offense. The sex was consensual, and both were adults.(bold added)

The bolded could be exactly also said about Lewis 'Scooter' Libby. Valerie Plame had been outed years earlier by Russian mole Aldrich Ames. She was thus ineligible for covert work, and outing her was not a crime under the relevant federal law (the 'Intelligence Identities Protection Act' of 1982).

Why prosecute Libby but not Clinton?
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,269,029 times
Reputation: 19952
So you think that there are 50 shades of lies?

Very easy to avoid those charges. Tell the truth. Is it really that difficult?
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
So you think that there are 50 shades of lies?

Very easy to avoid those charges. Tell the truth. Is it really that difficult?
I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you rephrase/clarify, and I will respond.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,980,100 times
Reputation: 14180
Why is it illegal to lie to Investigators, but perfectly all right for politicians and law enforcement officers to lie to the Citizens of the United States?
IMO, ANY elected or appointed official who lies to the citizens should be subject to censure or impeachment!
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,219 posts, read 22,376,569 times
Reputation: 23858
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
The bolded could be exactly also said about Lewis 'Scooter' Libby. Valerie Plame had been outed years earlier by Russian mole Aldrich Ames. She was thus ineligible for covert work, and outing her was not a crime under the relevant federal law (the 'Intelligence Identities Protection Act' of 1982).

Why prosecute Libby but not Clinton?
Two very different cases.

Scooter Libby was convicted of interfering with a Grand Jury investigation, and that's a crime.

You're wrong about Aldrich Ames outing Plame. He was long gone by the time Plame rose from the ranks to become an independent CIA field agent. Ames was a long-time double agent for Russia when he was found out and convicted, so he must have known who Plame was, but at the time of his conviction, Plame was still working at CIA headquarters as an analyst.

Since the CIA never releases any details on their employees and their jobs, no one but the CIA and the Russians Ames reported to will ever know the truth of what Ames said or not. But since Ames was sentenced in 1994, it's very likely Plame wasn't senior enough to be given an undercover agent's job yet.

By late 1992, Ames was so suspected of being a mole that the CIA shut him down and gave him an meaningless desk job. They began to search for evidence against him in early 1993, and by Nov. 1993, he was arrested.

Again, since the CIA never says a thing about internal affairs, it's possible they provided Ames with false info to pass on to his Russian handlers for some time before his arrest. He might not have known he had been shut down.

Plame was outed during the Grand Jury investigation by Richard Armitage, who was in the State Dept. at that time. Armitage told journalist Robert Novak about Plame's field agent status, and Novak outed her in an article in one of his syndicated newspaper columns.

Outing an active CIA agent is a crime, too, but neither Armitage nor Novak were ever charged.
Libby was Vice President Cheney's National Security assistant, and he violated both his office and the law when he tried to cover up the sources of Plame's outing during the Grand Jury investigation. There were 5 counts against him. He was convicted on 4 of them.

Clinton, on the other hand, only had consensual sex between two adults. He lied about it, but it wasn't a crime.
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