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View Poll Results: What's your opinon regarding the 'lying to investigators' charge?
liberal: It should be used infrequently if ever. 1 2.04%
liberal: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 2 4.08%
liberal: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 3 6.12%
conservative: It should be used infrequently if ever. 10 20.41%
conservative: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 5 10.20%
conservative: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 5 10.20%
independent: It should be used infrequently if ever. 7 14.29%
independent: It should only be used when accompanied by conviction of an underlying crime. 9 18.37%
independent: It's fine as is, as used by people like Comey and Mueller. 6 12.24%
other (please explain below). 1 2.04%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-29-2019, 06:02 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,206,955 times
Reputation: 55008

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Describe an event exactly as it happened 2 to 5 years ago to the FBI agent and if it's not 100% accurate as it happened then you lied and you deserve to go to prison.

Sorry, my memories not that good.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:14 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Describe an event exactly as it happened 2 to 5 years ago to the FBI agent and if it's not 100% accurate as it happened then you lied and you deserve to go to prison.

Sorry, my memories not that good.
You do know this is nonsense right? That the actual laws do not allow you to be convicted for having a poor memory. Roger Stones lawyers are making that argument. The facts of the case make that laughable though.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Michigan
2,745 posts, read 3,019,718 times
Reputation: 6542
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCbaxter View Post
If there’s no crime, why lie?
Why talk at all, because it can NEVER help you. Take the 5th no matter what. They can twist anything to fit any narrative, and they WILL if they choose to do so.

"Anything you say CAN and WILL BE used AGAINST you..." Right there in the so-called "Miranda Rights".

Do you see even a single HINT that there's anything in there (including God's own truth) that can be used FOR you?

Heck no you don't. It isn't there because in law, it doesn't exist. It's whatever the prosecutor wants to do, and a juries response.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,206,955 times
Reputation: 55008
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
You do know this is nonsense right? That the actual laws do not allow you to be convicted for having a poor memory. Roger Stones lawyers are making that argument. The facts of the case make that laughable though.
Your a trusting soul if believe this and were being investigated by a hostile FBI, DOJ or the Mueller Investigation.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:30 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Your a trusting soul if believe this and were being investigated by a hostile FBI, DOJ or the Mueller Investigation.

Have you even read the charging documents? Stone is straight up guilty as heck.

And I have faith in Juries. You know, "We the people"? Remember that? Plus judges, etc.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:33 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,206,955 times
Reputation: 55008
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Have you even read the charging documents? Stone is straight up guilty as heck.

And I have faith in Juries. You know, "We the people"? Remember that? Plus judges, etc.
You can trust Juries but it will cost you your fortune to be proven innocent. I've seen a guy spend $2-3 million defending himself against the Govt for bogus charge. They have unlimited funds.

You may be innocent, but they will bankrupt you first.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:42 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
You can trust Juries but it will cost you your fortune to be proven innocent. I've seen a guy spend $2-3 million defending himself against the Govt for bogus charge. They have unlimited funds.

You may be innocent, but they will bankrupt you first.

And? While I might agree with you, its irrelevant to the argument. Stone is worth 5 million. He is probably going to get a gofundme that will protect that by conning folks who haven't read the charging document. And he is probably hoping for a pardon so he can just pocket that. Fun times.


If you want to argue the cost of defending yourself should not be so harsh, I agree. Lets create a topic on that instead of trying to deflect this one with a side conversation thats not relevant to this specific topic, and this person who CAN spend that sort of money if he needs.
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Independent
It should be used NEVER!!!

The entire Mueller investigation is far worse than the Starr invesitgation by miles!!!

...


But no... the tribe is goose-stepping like a good little herd being led by their noses.
The comparison to Ken Starr is a good one. Starr had about 15 or so felony convictions as special prosecutor, and not ONE of them was for lying. He probably could have gone after Bill Clinton for it, but didn't. By far the lions share of Mueller's convictions have been for lying, especially if we exclude the 13 Russian hackers who will never see the inside of a US court.
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sooo...lying is fine in your world?

Sheesh. When my kids were 5 they knew lying was wrong. The stuff being done by Mueller lately is not entrapment or any nonsense like that. LOL.

The lies these people have told have been clearly deliberate, and with intent. No entrapment.
So what Comey/Fitzgerald did to Scooter Libby is fine in yours?

Libby was convicted in the case of the outing of CIA employee Valerie Plame. Her name appeared in a column by Bob Novak in the Washington Post. He got it from Richard Armitage, not Libby. Armitage was never prosecuted. Novak also was not convicted, although it cost him several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees to keep himself clear.

It turned out that the outing of Plame was not even a crime under the relevant law, because she wasn't a covert agent. She had been outed years before by a Russian mole (Aldrich Ames) and thus was not eligible for covert work.

Libby had nothing to do with her outing in any case, yet he was convicted (and pardoned by Trump).
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,722 posts, read 16,381,989 times
Reputation: 50380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Describe an event exactly as it happened 2 to 5 years ago to the FBI agent and if it's not 100% accurate as it happened then you lied and you deserve to go to prison.

Sorry, my memories not that good.
WRONG:

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-...pecific-intent

Elements Of Perjury -- Specific Intent. The third element of a perjury offense is proof of specific intent, that is, that the defendant made the false statement with knowledge of its falsity, rather than as a result of confusion, mistake or faulty memory

Sooooo convenient to try to weasel out of perjury by whining "entrapment" - the law doesn't work like that. Even poor old trump, as confused and senile as he is will have an "out" - but his corrupt intentions will shine through and still bite him on the azz so I'm not worried in the slightest.
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