Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The slaves did not fight the Union, they fought against the Confederate slave culture. I postulate that the Confederate flag is not revered by them.
My 5 English-American great, great uncles volunteered and fought in the Union army and fortunately survived the Civil War. I am also a descendant of an Mbuti-African slave-woman and her Dutch owner.
I'm a Democrat and the Confederate flag is not a major platform issue for me and never has been. Why are people continuing to make this an issue when most of the history of the Civil War is slowly being erased? You got what you wanted although few complained about it. If the blacks were all that butt hurt - they would have brought this issue up with the Civil Rights marches,
treasonous for wanting INDEPENDENCE? The South used the same reasons that Washington, Jefferson and the rest of our founding fathers used to divorce from Britain but funny how you don't call that treason. By the way, our founding fathers had slaves and kept it legal.
the fact is Lincoln and the North had NO intentions to end or fight to end slavery in the South gives a pause in the BS history they taught you in school and you repeat. The North wanted to force the South back in the Union for taxes $$$$$$......every war is fought for revenues, resources, and control.
The South left the Union when Lincoln was elected and Lincoln and the North passed the Corwin Amendment that declared slavery a state's right and the federal government could never tell that states how to deal with slavery. They did this so the South return, pay their taxes and avoid Lincoln sending troops to force them back by war....the South refused, so Lincoln did what every tyrant in history have done when people under their rule declares their independence.
The South didn't want to take over the U.S. Government or rule the North. They wanted to be independent.......it wasn't a civil war. Spain had a civil war, it was 2 sides fighting to control the whole country and rule over all the people in the country.......the south just wanted to be independent and just be left alone.....it was more of a war of independence and the tyrant won that time.
Yes. My undergrad degree is in history and we studied this extensively.
More to the point - regarding flags, shirts, etc., why can't you just mind your own business? Why must you jump to conclusions about how others feel about a symbol - or decide how they should fee according to your playbook?
And I'm not just talking about the Confederate flag - but all of the PC things that so many people are getting their panties in a bunch over. Do you spend time looking for things to be offended by? Personally, there are plently of things I find offensive. Know what I do? I ignore them. I don't try to read people's mind, assume their intentions, or need a good cry to deal with it. I just go about my business because, honestly, I have better things to do with my time. This issue has been well, not discussed really - more argued about - ad nauseuam on CD. And if it isn't this, it's something else. As a woman, I could rant and rave because black men got to vote long before women of any race - but I choose to spend my time in more enjoyable, less time wasting pursuits. Why go on and on about things that offend you and make you a "victim"? Must you be the thought police for everyone. Get a life, for crying out loud. You're not changing anyone's mind here. It's just pointless regurgitation that must make someone feel self-righteous.....
Outside of the "Blacks are brainwashed by the leftists" gaslighting line, I notice very few people can or will answer this question: Why aren't Blacks embracing the Confederate flag as part of their "southern heritage"? This is an important question to ask because. There is a major contrast between how many Whites view the Confederate flag vs how Blacks view the Confederate flag. And there are legitimate reasons for this. However, I'm noticing that said question is not being asked.
With 45,000+ posts on CD you have certainly seen this discussed before ad nauseum unless all those posts were in Food & Drink. Therefore I figure this is disingenuous and a way to start a cat fight.
Okay. But I still see no reason why we should’ve waited another 70 years for slavery to end on its own.
It needed to end when it ended.
The Morrill tariff alone would have killed slavery. Why do you think the south was so terrified of it?
As I explained earlier, it is the "elites" who control the government. The elites in the south were the planters. And since the south had virtually no industry, planters had nearly all of the power, especially in the Deep South.
As industry grew, the power was shifting from the planters to the industrialists. In much the same way that as Silicon Valley grows, Google and Facebook and Apple can exert more and more influence over US policy.
The reason slavery died in the north, is because industry is incompatible with slavery. Not only is slave-labor not efficient for factory work, but factories produce goods to be consumed. Slaves aren't consumers, free-laborers are.
The industrialists abolished slavery in the north because it was in their interests to "emancipate" the workers. Which was exactly the same reason serfdom ended in Europe.
If the south had been industrial, they would have abolished slavery. And as industry began to move into the south, slavery was already dying. It was virtually gone in New Jersey and Delaware. It was dying in Maryland. And it was stagnating in Virginia and Kentucky.
One "dip" in cotton prices would have made cotton unprofitable. And as Britain moved its cotton production to India, the demand for American cotton would have continued to fall, just as it did.
The only reason the Civil War happened, is because nearly half of the total area of the country was growing cotton. And the only reason that much of the country could grow cotton, was because they were selling it to Europe.
If Europe wasn't buying cotton, there wouldn't have been anyone to sell the cotton to. Without someone to sell cotton to, they would stop growing cotton. And if they weren't growing cotton, they would have shifted their economy to something else. Most-likely to industry(as they did). And with the rise of industry in the south, they would have abolished slavery.
The most-likely date that slavery would have been abolished was in 1873, which is when cotton prices plummeted as a result of a massive recession.
You are obsessed with the production of cotton, but what really matters is the consumption of cotton. The south did not consume the cotton they produced.
Ironically, if the south actually consumed the cotton they grew, they wouldn't have grown it.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-10-2019 at 02:18 PM..
Does all that matter in this case? Point is that the Confederate flag and other symbols of the Confederady are associated with white supremacy, period.
And why are they associated with them? Because a racist has flown the Confederate flag? Don't they also fly the American flag? Is the American flag a symbol of "White-Supremacy"? Many people believe it is. Should we ban the American flag because it offends people?
not by killing thousands and thousands of civilians for it............that's like saying we need to end communism in other countries which is another form of slavery by invading those countries and killing civilians and soldiers and destroying towns and cities.
and then you find out the real reason that the government invaded them wasn't to stop communism but to control their resources and revenues.
Lincoln and the North intentions were never to end slavery in the South, that's not the reason he fought the war. It was taxes, revenues, and control of land and resources.
Whoever had to die needed to die to end it. If that was thousands or millions, what the hell do I care? Not my problem. Frankly, I don’t think enough Southerners died in the conflict.
Moreover, I don’t give a damn about Lincoln’s intentions. The bottom line is that the war signaled the end of slavery and made it untenable beyond the war’s end.
Oh yeah, since you assert that Lincoln and the Republicans had no intention of ending slavery, don’t ever say that blacks owe fealty to the Republican Party because they ended slavery. Okay?
The Confederate Flag is a symbol of Southern Pride for Person A and a symbol of racial hatred to Person B. The former sees it as heroic and the latter as villainous. Therefore, it is both. Personally, I wish the Confederate Flag no longer existed and thatt every American now despises it.
If the Confederate flag no longer exists, a new flag can be made. One that unites ALL southerners.
The Morrill tariff alone would have killed slavery. Why do you think the south was so terrified of it?
As I explained earlier, it is the "elites" who control the government. The elites in the south were the planters. And since the south had virtually no industry, planters had nearly all of the power, especially in the Deep South.
As industry grew, the power was shifting from the planters to the industrialists. In much the same way that as Silicon Valley grows, Google and Facebook and Apple can exert more and more influence over US policy.
The reason slavery died in the north, is because industry is incompatible with slavery. Not only is slave-labor not efficient for factory work, but factories produce goods to be consumed. Slaves aren't consumers, free-laborers are.
The industrialists abolished slavery in the north because it was in their interests to "emancipate" the workers. Which was exactly the same reason serfdom ended in Europe.
If the south had been industrial, they would have abolished slavery. And as industry began to move into the south, slavery was already dying. It was virtually gone in New Jersey and Delaware. It was dying in Maryland. And it was stagnating in Virginia and Kentucky.
One "dip" in cotton prices would have made cotton unprofitable. And as Britain moved its cotton production to India, the demand for American cotton would have continued to fall, just as it did.
The only reason the Civil War happened, is because nearly half of the total area of the country was growing cotton. And the only reason that much of the country could grow cotton, was because they were selling it to Europe.
If Europe wasn't buying cotton, there wouldn't have been anyone to sell the cotton to. Without someone to sell cotton to, they would stop growing cotton. And if they weren't growing cotton, they would have shifted their economy to something else. Most-likely to industry(as they did). And with the rise of industry in the south, they would have abolished slavery.
The most-likely date that slavery would have been abolished was in 1873, which is when cotton prices plummeted as a result of a massive recession.
You are obsessed with the production of cotton, but what really matters is the consumption of cotton. The south did not consume the cotton they produced.
Ironically, if the south actually consumed the cotton they grew, they wouldn't have grown it.
The Morill Tariff didn’t come into law until after the Southerners started secession. Too late.
The slaves did not fight the Union, they fought against the Confederate slave culture. I postulate that the Confederate flag is not revered by them.
My 5 English-American great, great uncles volunteered and fought in the Union army and fortunately survived the Civil War. I am also a descendant of an Mbuti-African slave-woman and her Dutch owner.
but Lincoln and the North weren't fighting to end the "Confederate slave culture" if they did they would have said so and not pass the Corwin Amendment and it would have been in the constitution if the South return to the union and voted YES on it as the North did. Lincoln supported the Amendment and said he would sign it.
So did the slaves actually knew what they were fighting for? I bet if they knew the real reasons why the Union waged war on the South they wouldn't have fought. Do you actually think the majority of white people in the North were going to leave their wives and children alone in the farms in many cold winters to go and fight and die to change the "slave culture" in the South? they weren't going to put their lives and their families over some black slaves in the South that they had no connection to.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The South used the same reasons that Washington, Jefferson and the rest of our founding fathers used to divorce from Britain but funny how you don't call that treason. By the way, our founding fathers had slaves and kept it legal.
