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And of course, everything you source is free of bias and agenda. And Wiki? Really? It's not like you are trying to sell us democratic socialism or anything. We see where you were going with all this. Which begs the larger question:
Which of you Americans out there want to subjugate yourself and your productivity to the state in exchange for enough rationed services to provide an adequate life? Once you accept this offer, your life will no longer be driven by self interest, and your self-determination will be limited to state approved goals. Your choice. Choose wisely.
You're framing this from the American perspective. Another perspective is that if some big tickets items are covered: health insurance, higher-level education, retirement, old-age care then that provides greater freedom for self interest and self-determination in other areas of your life. If there is no need to save for unknown or uncontrollable life events in amounts more than may actually be needed, then those funds are yours to spend freely.
Social Security and Medicare work on this principal. Can you imagine trying to save retirement funds to cover yourself if you win the genetic lottery and actually live to age 99. By knowing you'll have guaranteed income in some dollar amount, you can take that cruise spending what otherwise would go to the old-age piggy bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
What's worse: getting little because the money is given to managers and stockholders instead, or getting little because the money goes to the state, which at least gives something back to you via the services it provides you with?
I think this topic is full of ideology. Even if an independent body came up with a clear recommendation on how to do it, many people would refuse it for ideological reasons. It seems there is no more effort to try and find the best solution, regardless of who comes up with it.
People would refuse because the ideology is well established in the United States with party differences profound. Even if one party tried to implement a solution, there would be no guarantee that the next party might not try to completely reverse course. Look at the ACA. The Bush attempt to partially privatize Social Security.
Because we have no strong safety nets for the middle class, folks turn to wealth - be it earned income - investments - generational wealth in the form of inheritances - to provide their own safety net. For many to trust would be a leap indeed. Then add on to that the overall distrust in government. The result: best to hold onto your own pennies.
These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger.
Interesting article, written by the Valley News Editorial Board, but here too let's not confuse what is socialism and what is really something else...
Bernie Sanders
✔
@SenSanders
The people of Venezuela are enduring a serious humanitarian crisis. The Maduro government must put the needs of its people first, allow humanitarian aid into the country, and refrain from violence against protesters.
Note it's "Maduro's government" and all the rest doesn't sound like the hallmark of what goes on in other socialist countries that better serve their people. Right?
At a minimum, there are a good many other countries perhaps better representative of socialism over Venezuela!
Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium
Don't sign off.......continue to make silly comments how everyone should have it all. Wake up, it doesn't work like that. The Communist Manifesto states it all..........blame the rich for ills of the poor. Blame the rich for peoples crappy lives, blame the rich for everything crumby in your lives.
Funny how the complainers never "thank the rich for paying a large percentage of income taxes" compared to the poor and middle class. Stop being a Commie and thank the rich......
I have never EVER believed or written anything even close to "how everyone should have it all."
Seems you are yet another one of these people who can't think about these topics other than in irrational extremes.
If my comments are silly, I hate to think how your comment should be described, but again I'll try to keep it civil here...
Should college be so expensive? A privilege for those with parents who can afford the cost and/or such a burden for the kids that need to take out student loans?
We paid to get our college kids through college as well. Lo siento. We paid a handsome sum and still used financial aid to help shore up the rest. We had our kids work part-time jobs and assume responsibility for part of the expense too, as they should, as we their parents did when we put ourselves through college. Problem today, however, is the higher cost of education has made it impossible to pay for all college expenses like we parents were able back in our day. Tuition is much higher. Cost of living is much higher. Everything is more expensive...
That's what happens when a country becomes even more socialist over the years, and the national government inserts itself into the housing, post-secondary education, health care, etc., market sectors. See: Venezuela.
Interesting article, written by the Valley News Editorial Board, but here too let's not confuse what is socialism and what is really something else...
Bernie Sanders
✔
@SenSanders
The people of Venezuela are enduring a serious humanitarian crisis. The Maduro government must put the needs of its people first, allow humanitarian aid into the country, and refrain from violence against protesters.
Note it's "Maduro's government" and all the rest doesn't sound like the hallmark of what goes on in other socialist countries that better serve their people. Right?
At a minimum, there are a good many other countries perhaps better representative of socialism over Venezuela!
Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium
Can you even imagine a US household with an income of $59,000 (national average) being expected to pay a 45% effective federal income tax rate? Do you think Americans would agree to that?
The get free primary education, free secondary education and free post-secondary education.
Please explain why they blatantly refuse to take advantage of the free opportunities I have provided for them.
In addition to providing them with free education, I subsidize their housing, buy their food for them, and pay for their healthcare.
Plus I provide many other free things like free parenting classes, free personal financial management classes, and many other life-skill-based programs.
In many instances, I also pay for their electricity and natural gas use.
What the hell else do you want from me?
For starters, I'd ask you attempt to answer your own questions, especially the first one you put in bold...
I too have paid plenty of taxes in my day, more than most people earn in their lifetime. I have always wished I could pay less, but I understand how a progressive tax code is necessary and appropriate. I too wish more poor people could take better advantage of what help there is that comes from those tax dollars, but I think the question is not necessarily what more anyone wants from YOU, but what more the most wealthy should pay, how can the tax code be improved? What better can be done with our tax revenues in general to be more effective?
I could go on but I can't be sure I'm even making sense about this so far with someone like you before bothering further...
Interesting article, written by the Valley News Editorial Board, but here too let's not confuse what is socialism and what is really something else...
Bernie Sanders
✔
@SenSanders
The people of Venezuela are enduring a serious humanitarian crisis. The Maduro government must put the needs of its people first, allow humanitarian aid into the country, and refrain from violence against protesters.
Note it's "Maduro's government" and all the rest doesn't sound like the hallmark of what goes on in other socialist countries that better serve their people. Right?
At a minimum, there are a good many other countries perhaps better representative of socialism over Venezuela!
Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium
100+ million US workers and retirees have $28 trillion invested in their pensions and their retirement accounts. THEY are stockholders. THEY own corporate debt. THEY are investors. If they don't profit from their investments, they don't get their promised defined benefit pensions, or enough growth in their retirement accounts to be able to draw an adequate amount in their retirement.
Hard for me to easily reconcile these numbers/statistics with the widely reported fact that about half of Americans can't afford a $500 emergency expense.
No doubt some "see the glass as half empty while others half full," but either way I think we should avoid looking at only half the facts rather than all of them...
Like most conservatives, you point at the adults who can easily be faulted in all variety of ways, generally forgetting all that leads up to the millions of adults struggling with poverty, but I start with the kids...
How can poor kids be held to blame?
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