Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obama came from a well-educated family with a caring mother and grandparents. Most kids born into poverty aren't so fortunate. Sure they may have affection lavished on them but it often doesn't translate into the type of focused attention that Obama received.
I have no dog in this fight. We can't begin to close the gap between rich and poor until we look at the root causes. They are pervasive and persistent enough that it's unrealistic to think the average poor boy can pull himself up by his bootstraps. But then they are also pervasive and persistent enough many most social programs may not have a substantial remedial impact. Our political system is too divided to make the kind of committed effort that might make a difference.
There are some who still decry the New Deal pointing out that it was only ww2 that pulled us out of the depression. This forgets that in the interim New Deal programs probably kept folks from starving. The War on Poverty is the poster child of social programs that do not work say some. Granted it did not alleviate poverty but it raised living standards among the poor above a level that would be unsustainable in today's world where an expose is but one YouTube video away.
The many pages of this thread are primarily devoted to defending our system. In the end, what we have may well be the best "fit" for Americans. But it is interesting that so few appear to grasp why many Europeans look at America in askance and thank God they have a European passport. Life in a social democracy may not be the wealthiest way to live but it can make for a better overall lifestyle.
The new crop of young progressive Democrats aside, I don't see that happening here.
We don't see a lot for a lot of reasons...
None of us can fully grasp all that we as a society and/or government have accomplished over time that in many ways have improved the lives of average Americans, most certainly the most wealthy. We can't know the full scope of all our $20 trillion dollar economy provides per year or what our annual trillion dollar government spending contributes as well. Additionally, what progress we make is incremental, "slowly but surely," but surely only if there is the ongoing interest to improve where we can, change what we must, in order to make further progress. At least not go backwards as many people tend to believe Trump is leading us.
Sometimes we do take one step backward before we take another two forward, but over time we DO make painfully slow progress one way or another...
You could always check a European source on the effective national tax rate an average income earner pays in the EU 28. Chart on page 9. Effective national tax rate in the 2nd column from the right:
Take a poll on how many average income Americans ($59,000 per household) would be willing to pay those effective (read: ACTUAL) federal income tax rates.
What's an effective or actual tax rate?! We all know what income tax rates are. Indirect taxes are almost impossible to consider because one would have to know each and every product and service people buy and pay for during a year.
Nor does all that say anything about progressive vs regressive, which is what we were talking about.
But you cannot legislate temperament.
You can't legislate how people parent.
You can't legislate desire, will, or grit.
You can't legislate aptitude or work ethic.
You can only take other people's work and redistribute it.
While some of this is required to have a functioning society, at some point, there will be a huge negative impact on our progression as a species/civilization.
You can't lift people up while simultaneously dragging people down.
Your absolutes are a little too absolute, and I think untrue...
Is providing better quality education, for example, not a way to lift people up without dragging people down? Preventative medicine...
That's just two examples of countless I can think of that demonstrate how there can be "win win" scenarios rather than "zero sum" as you insist.
I have been poor . Like with basically nothing, homeless , and found work and better work , and a place to live and better work , and other work and a better place to live ,add nauseam
Life is not fair , stop living a fantasy and take responsibility for your self.
If an EMP or CME hits or tornado or hurricane hit or economic collapse occurs or some other calamity occurs an no social services are existent to hold your hand what then ?
With out personal discipline , skills and quality reputation you have virtually nothing to trade for survival.
When life gets hard generosity get's much harder to find , and the way things are going that scenario is not far away.
Wealthy have a right to use their resources to their advantage ,same as your wealth is yours to do with as you please.
Choosing to be dependent on public funds is slavery .which is fine with democrats .they love slaves.
I much prefer to have the liberty to choose my work and be fairly compensated and or move to another skill ,place ,employer and improve my worth .Now that I am retired I am enjoying the fruits of my labors earned from all the jobs I had invested.
Whose fault that is when someone is born into a lousy family? The parents, the society or the taxpayers?
The income gap is not an issue at all. It’s made up to stir jealousy from those who can’t or unwilling to work for it.
The upward mobility is the issue. The real question should be asked is how we can help the poor to become rich quickly? Today, though not perfect, the American society has the highest mobility with 80% of millionaires being self made and first generation rich. Think Warreb Buffet, Bill Gates, Schultz, Jobs, Bezo etc. etc. etc. interestingly the rich can’t hold on to their rich status with 70% of them losing their wealth by the third generation and 90% by the fourth.
Poverty in America, there’s no real poverty in america, is a cultural thing. People who value frugality and education particularly in STEM and finance rise up to the top; those value sports, gangster/celebrity lifestyle, and ignoring education mostly remain poor.
Fault is not the issue.
Do we do better -- all of us -- if the significant ill effects of poverty are mitigated?
Statistics prove you wrong, there are many countries with higher social mobility.
Haven't you read the past couple of pages where people have posted links to statistics?
There is indeed much in the way of information that clearly demonstrates there are no absolute right or wrong ways to achieve success in these regards, and clearly there are ways to do better rather than worse!
No tax breaks, flat tax, no corporate tax incentives, and no bailouts. Eliminate the Fed while your at it too.
A flat tax is not only a bad way to go for a few reasons but also impossible given this country's tax/spend reality such as it is today. Not even close to viable even if it were sensible...
Those diagrams are made by those two organizations, they are not official OECD diagrams, nor did they link to such.
The Wiki descriptions of those two organizations state their bias and agenda, it is not my opinion because I had never heard of those organizations before, they are obviously not renowned or anything.
And of course, everything you source is free of bias and agenda. And Wiki? Really? It's not like you are trying to sell us democratic socialism or anything. We see where you were going with all this. Which begs the larger question:
Which of you Americans out there want to subjugate yourself and your productivity to the state in exchange for enough rationed services to provide an adequate life? Once you accept this offer, your life will no longer be driven by self interest, and your self-determination will be limited to state approved goals. Your choice. Choose wisely.
A flat tax is not only a bad way to go for a few reasons but also impossible given this country's tax/spend reality such as it is today. Not even close to viable even if it were sensible...
Yes, there are good reasons why there are fewer and fewer countries left that have a flat tax. It is simply unfair...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
