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Old 04-16-2019, 01:34 PM
 
13,602 posts, read 4,927,464 times
Reputation: 9687

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post

The debt is a number that represents failure on the part of the government, not the citizens. .
So you don't believe in "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"?
We ARE the government. When one says the US government is in debt, that means WE are in debt. You and me. It works out to about $100,000 per taxpayer.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,576 posts, read 56,460,696 times
Reputation: 23378
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
My taxes increased as did that of most who had a family member with huge medical bills. Basically tax cuts for the healthy and tax increases for the sick and disabled.

I also had my first negative return on my investments since 2008 thanks to the dampening effect of the tariffs overriding the short term benefits from cutting capital gains taxes.
Losing!
Correct on all points. The tariffs stopped progress in its tracks. Our portfolios these days haven't changed a jot in over a year. The tax law was such a blatant heist from the low-income retirees (many are paying more this year) and middle class, people should marching in the streets. Ballooning deficits because the rich are getting richer. Americans are really stupid.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:51 PM
 
21,915 posts, read 9,486,318 times
Reputation: 19443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
So you don't believe in "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"?
We ARE the government. When one says the US government is in debt, that means WE are in debt. You and me. It works out to about $100,000 per taxpayer.
No, it's about $100k per person and $187k per TAXPAYER. Why do you think those numbers differ?



Ironically, the tax cuts saved a family making $75k a year around $2,500. Wasn't that the same amount Obamacare was supposed to save you?
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:25 PM
 
13,946 posts, read 5,618,313 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Therefore, it goes without question that you support unlimited deficit and debt if you approve of shell games that result in a further imbalance in the income/expense ration of the Federal Government.
Therefore, it goes without question that you cannot form a logical conclusion based on available data.

I never said I support unlimited debt and deficit. I said, quite clearly, that all of the blame is on government, not the taxpayer. High taxes are not what provide good schools or (LMAO) culture. Schools improve the less government is involved, just ask any private school. Culture has exactly nothing to do with taxation.

Generally, high tax localities and states have high taxes because of exactly two things - wasteful administrators and inefficient services. Oh, and the need to import and comfort the poor. Has nothing to do with the quality of schools or the freaking (LMAO, again) culture.

The wasteful administrator is not the taxpayer's fault, nor the taxpayer's responsibility to bail out when they suck at their job. Inefficient services...same thing. Not the taxpayer's fault.

But they over-promise and under-deliver, and always for more expense and less efficiency than had the private sector done whatever it is they (and you, laughably) think only they can do. And then they blame you the taxpayer when they routinely and almost assuredly run out of money and need more. That you buy their absurd lie just makes you gullible and not a little pathetic.

I think taxation is theft and violence, and I think damn near everything done by the government at any level would be far better if done by private individuals according to voluntaryism and absolute property rights. You accuse me of championing unlimited deficits and debt? Have you read not one thing I have posted, or does ignorance so suit you that you wish to make sure it is a permanent condition?

Just as the local taxpayer is not at fault for the failures of local government, neither is the state taxpayer at fault for the failures of state government and most certainly neither is the federal taxpayer in other states because of failures in places the don't even live. You want to blame me and the rest of the of the nation's taxpayers for not supporting your state/town's taxation issues? Seriously?

If you truly believe that your schools, opportunities, culture, etc all come from having high taxes, then why should people around the country be forced to offset those taxes for your beliefs? You are such a champion of high taxation and all of the benefits thereof, why should anyone else have to help you pay those taxes? Why would you gripe about honestly knowing just how much the locality and state are taxing you, if only as a badge of your collectivist honor. Right?

I swear, people who blame their neighbor for the faults of government...you people astound me with your Stockholm Syndrome retardation.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,117,194 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
So you think it's bad when any president spends.
It sure is.

Federal spending should be $0. Federal taxes should be $0.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,117,194 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
So you don't believe in "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"?
Nope.

Quote:
We ARE the government. When one says the US government is in debt, that means WE are in debt. You and me. It works out to about $100,000 per taxpayer.
"We" are NOT the government. If we were the government they wouldn't be allowed to keep secrets from us and kill us if we disobey them.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:42 PM
 
13,946 posts, read 5,618,313 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
So you don't believe in "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"?
We ARE the government. When one says the US government is in debt, that means WE are in debt. You and me. It works out to about $100,000 per taxpayer.
I've never agreed to deficit spending in theory or practice in my entire life. Not for war, not for welfare, not for anything. Not once, ever.

The wasteful government has nothing to do with my behavior. And I pay my taxes on time and in the exact amount the law as written demands. I always have, even when I disagree 100% with the concept of taxation generally and 100% of how those taxes get spent.

The debt and the deficit therefore, are not on me. I didn't write, debate or vote yea on overspending revenue that was generated by stealing from the taxpayers. Not once, ever. Since neither party can balance a budget, minus flukes of the GDP where the growth happens faster than they can figure out how to outspend it, I can't ever vote for someone willing to lower spending under expected revenue because none of them do or even try to convince you they will.

I am NOT that government. They put their failures on me and because they possess a monopoly on force and violence, I have to take it (if I wish to live longer and outside of a cage), but that makes me a victim, not a willing participant.

And that "government of the people, by the people and for the people" was a laughably ironic bromide in a speech made by a tyrant who forced compliance with federal diktat, literally, at gunpoint. The "People" of 11 states chose to no longer be part of that tyrant's club and formed their own club, just as the Declaration of Independence described four score and seven years prior; except in 1865, the plucky rebels didn't emerge victorious like they did in 1779.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,353,256 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
So you don't believe in "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"?
We ARE the government. When one says the US government is in debt, that means WE are in debt. You and me. It works out to about $100,000 per taxpayer.
That’s a concept that’s taught and repeated, but doesn’t make any sense when you break it down. It’s convenient for the actual government to say “you voted for some of us, so that means you are us”, and then take everyone’s money and spend it, and people seem to buy that sales pitch.

I especially don’t believe that lie, because I never vote. I don’t want anyone “representing” me and spending the money I worked for. I’d tell them no thank you, but things don’t go well for you when you refuse their offer.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:48 PM
 
21,915 posts, read 9,486,318 times
Reputation: 19443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Therefore, it goes without question that you cannot form a logical conclusion based on available data.

I never said I support unlimited debt and deficit. I said, quite clearly, that all of the blame is on government, not the taxpayer. High taxes are not what provide good schools or (LMAO) culture. Schools improve the less government is involved, just ask any private school. Culture has exactly nothing to do with taxation.

Generally, high tax localities and states have high taxes because of exactly two things - wasteful administrators and inefficient services. Oh, and the need to import and comfort the poor. Has nothing to do with the quality of schools or the freaking (LMAO, again) culture.

The wasteful administrator is not the taxpayer's fault, nor the taxpayer's responsibility to bail out when they suck at their job. Inefficient services...same thing. Not the taxpayer's fault.

But they over-promise and under-deliver, and always for more expense and less efficiency than had the private sector done whatever it is they (and you, laughably) think only they can do. And then they blame you the taxpayer when they routinely and almost assuredly run out of money and need more. That you buy their absurd lie just makes you gullible and not a little pathetic.

I think taxation is theft and violence, and I think damn near everything done by the government at any level would be far better if done by private individuals according to voluntaryism and absolute property rights. You accuse me of championing unlimited deficits and debt? Have you read not one thing I have posted, or does ignorance so suit you that you wish to make sure it is a permanent condition?

Just as the local taxpayer is not at fault for the failures of local government, neither is the state taxpayer at fault for the failures of state government and most certainly neither is the federal taxpayer in other states because of failures in places the don't even live. You want to blame me and the rest of the of the nation's taxpayers for not supporting your state/town's taxation issues? Seriously?

If you truly believe that your schools, opportunities, culture, etc all come from having high taxes, then why should people around the country be forced to offset those taxes for your beliefs? You are such a champion of high taxation and all of the benefits thereof, why should anyone else have to help you pay those taxes? Why would you gripe about honestly knowing just how much the locality and state are taxing you, if only as a badge of your collectivist honor. Right?

I swear, people who blame their neighbor for the faults of government...you people astound me with your Stockholm Syndrome retardation.
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