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I actually don't entirely disagree with that on the surface of it, though I wish we could sit and have a beer over this conversation.
You know what else the middle class cannot sustain? The current tax code. We have a HH income of just over $100k. This puts us at 22%. One tier up is 24%; one tier down is 12%. That means that either hubby and I can suddenly take our income up to $166k and be ok, or I can quit, get a P/T job so that our HH income is $74k, and pay 10% less taxes. Where we sit, though, we are getting hit so hard that it doesn't make sense for both of us to work.
This does not encourage anyone to work hard and move up.
(Note: these numbers are for married filing jointly)
I bring this up because every time a Dem talks about how their kid died because they couldn't afford the treatment needed, or they are struggling as a single mom because they had to leave a husband who was violent and put them in a hospital, the Reps say "but look at the economy"... I'm sorry what?
The life of my kid and the NASDAQ numbers do not hold the same weight for me, but hey, I'll play on your field, and let math speak for itself.
I appreciate what seems an effort to consider these issues in a bit more specific, informed and balanced manner, and as such I'd be interested to have that beer with you too, so I can better understand your math at a minimum...
Maybe if you can offer what the rest of the math looks like, I can better understand your "bottom line." As your HH income goes up or down, what is your net take home after taxes? I ask, because although my wife and I were in the top income bracket for a good many years before we retired, I never found either of us without incentive to make more. Not only because our net take home after taxes was always MORE, but because generally speaking, doing the best one can with their career is a long-term effort, to strive toward securing employment over the long term and make as much money over the same period of time.
We would have never been able to put away for savings, investments or retirement if we hadn't always done our best to make more money every year we were able, through all the inevitable ups and downs. I've never met anyone who made less money or quit their job so they could be better off financially. This confuses me and why I ask...
Meanwhile, I will add that it is very early in the political process to do much other than listen and maybe learn as much as possible about what might be worth considering when these politicians point out what our problems really are. I too often "scratch my head" about the answers, but take what Bernie Sanders has to say, for example. I don't know if it is right to call Sanders a socialist in terms of the classic definition of the word. I don't think so, and I am not a socialist, but I do agree with what Sanders has to say about some very significant powerful interests and how that power needs to be better addressed (reduced) before some badly needed changes for America are made possible going forward.
Both sides employ. My thing is this. How do democrats tend to win an election with only 12 percent of the population which has stagnated in the past couple of decades in terms growth. Democracts want to win 2020,they will have to gain support from working class white men.
I agree and white working class men aren’t generally for open borders and free health care for illegals.
They may have to win somehow without their vote
Although I don’t think the next democrat will be as brazen as Hillary and completely disregard and in some ways insult white middle America men
Sometimes? lol They're all the same. All want to protect something or someone, always have promises to fulfill, always end up selling their soul for power and wealth. They're all alike except one claims red and the other blue but underneath it all, there's no difference.
Hard not to become cynical about politics and politicians, especially as we get older. I am certainly challenged in more ways than three as well, but at the same time I've never been comfortable with the claims "they're all the same" or that the differences don't make a difference...
More often than not, I believe when people just throw up their hands in similar defeatist sorts fashion, it is because they can't too well make sense of all there is to consider. Easier to just say everything is FUBAR than make the significant effort to at least figure out what is better rather than worse. Also very often, these people will throw away their vote or not vote at all, abdicating the decision about who will lead our government to other people.
Sad that so many Americans feel this way but not all too hard to understand given all the partisan nonsense that stinks up the air to the point you can hardly breath...
Yeah, paying taxes AND getting FED Income Tax refunds while sending their kids to use our public schools and resources. I am a single man with a comfortable income and fiercely resent paying benefits for ppl who pay much less than me who shouldn’t even be here.
I've read and heard similar comments from adults without children who resent paying taxes for education, for what seems like similar reason. Not all too different from people who rationalize not paying for health insurance, because they don't feel they need that either, or should be forced to pay for it...
Good logic and reason this?
I don't think so, but when so many Americans can't even agree about how best to manage our problems collectively, we become more divided. Meanwhile, it always seems to me that all these fiercely "independent" conservatives who think it best to "walk the line" alone are the first to collect unemployment when bounced from their job for no fault of their own, or take advantage of government assistance when job loss and family medical issues suddenly become reality (all as my good Republican friend has done while never changing his conservative tune all the while).
Both sides employ. My thing is this. How do democrats tend to win an election with only 12 percent of the population which has stagnated in the past couple of decades in terms growth. Democracts want to win 2020,they will have to gain support from working class white men.
*SIGH*
Again, American politics are cyclical. Democrats just won two presidential elections in a row just one president ago. Democrats took back the House only one midterm election ago.
12% of the population? Do you just have it out for African Americans or what? What are you getting at here?
Whoever does those NY Post headlines is worth his/her weight in gold!! hahaha
Yeah but when you consider all the similar funnies about Trump, is it just me or are they really that funny and worth passing along all considered? Funny if it makes the other side look bad. Not so funny otherwise...
Or maybe better put, it's funny when it's poking fun time, like at the White House Correspondent's Dinner that Trump couldn't even attend, but when adults are trying to have a adult conversation, it's more like junior who keeps interrupting and disrupting the conversation by coming out of his room instead of staying there and playing with his toys.
Might just add before signing off again this morning that I am encouraged to see even conservatives watching the Democratic debates. Too many it seems are just watching for a chance to ridicule without much thought involved, but either way it's important I think to consider the other point of view even if different from yours (beyond the partisan nonsense). Like I always say, you don't learn much about the soundness of your point of view by only listening to your point of view. Something like how it's a good idea to avoid incest too...
Both sides employ. My thing is this. How do democrats tend to win an election with only 12 percent of the population which has stagnated in the past couple of decades in terms growth. Democracts want to win 2020,they will have to gain support from working class white men.
No one said that both sides don’t employ it.
I said that the right is more effective at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctr88
I'm looking forward to more minority conservatives in 2024 debates like Nikki Haley. Minority conservatives debating liberals would be great! So Democrats don't think they can "talk down" and "condescend" to minorities, and automatically "assume" they all want socialism, open borders, big gov't, higher taxes, central planning, statism. Liberals won't be able to pull the "race card" on minority conservatives. And Lib's are mostly lost without the race card (as Kamala pulled the race card on Biden already).
There are some nationally known South Asian conservatives out there in America like Nikki Haley, Bobby Jindal, Dinesh D'Souza. I am surprised there aren't a lot more East Asian conservatives. They seem like very natural conservatives...i.e. they tend to be self starters, high incomes and pay a lot of tax, low rates of welfare, low crime rates, personal responsibility, they are hurt by affirmative action laws, etc... I don't see how most Asians they think the Dem agenda supports them at all?
See...there you go advocating for identity politics.
Conservative example number 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
you guys take the cake, the democrats INVENTED identity politics, as they have been parsing various groups into small pieces for decades.
I’m telling the truth. Republicans are the racial dog whistle masters. I see it all the time right here on CD. Maybe even in a few of your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
As an independent I see the problem. I will abstain from voting in 2020 for presidential candidate. The only candidates I like is tulsi gabbard, Andrew yang and Bernie sanders.
You’re not an independent. You’re a conservative Republican.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618
But the defining aspect of our politics right now is that to be a real American, one must be white, heterosexual, conservative, fundamentalist Christian, and must believe in a patriarchal social order where gender roles are strictly enforced. If you aren't that, the culture today says you not only aren't a real American but are a deviant animal not worthy of rights.
Yep. Sarah Palin has it down cold with her “the Real America” rantings.
She meant white Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Except you have no proof. That's why you never offered any. The left is an absolute disgrace with their handouts and identity politics. Not that the right is much better.
Play dumb. But you know what I’m talking about. You and your ilk do it all the time.
Yes he was and today and people forget that it was a pretty mainstream issue back then. Most wealthy liberal people in LA, DC, NY, and SF will praise Harris but refuse to send their owns kids to schools that have bussing.
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