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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 11 days ago)
35,637 posts, read 17,989,189 times
Reputation: 50679
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This ESPN article sheds some light. Apparently his home town celebrity DID sway the court system, including the fact that Law Enforcement who eventually arrived on the scene didn't even file an incident report and gave Cleaves a gratis lift home.
Additionally, the quote by the juror is telling. Basically, if you willingly get in a car with a man, you're his to do with what he wants, even if you run naked out of the room yelling for help twice during the night and are dragged back in against your will.
Sorry, lady, you got what you asked for, according to the jury.
Hmmm, having read the article and with 9 women on the jury...and they all got to see the tape, there is clearly something else going on. The jurists mentioned that she'd been caught in several lies.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 11 days ago)
35,637 posts, read 17,989,189 times
Reputation: 50679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Hmmm, having read the article and with 9 women on the jury...and they all got to see the tape, there is clearly something else going on. The jurists mentioned that she'd been caught in several lies.
I'm going to file this under case closed.
I really don't see how whatever her statements were is relevant here. We see what we see.
Whether she initially was embarrassed that she went to a man's hotel room, whether she initially consented to sex, whether she was in fact too drunk to clearly remember all the details, we have video.
Of him chasing her, and dragging her against his will back to his room yelling to a witness for help. TWICE.
To me, that trumps everything else. We SEE what he does, and she's trying her best to get away.
The fact that there were 9 women on the jury isn't a point for justice. Many women will throw other women under the bus same as look at them. She might have gotten a fairer shake if the jury was made up of fathers of young women her age.
In fact, under our corrupt, two-tier system of justice, championed by the Obama administration and the radical militant "Politically correct" Democrat left, that is not applicable to people who are wealthy in terms of money or celebrity status, who have the appropriate "Identity politics" status, and who openly and actively support the politics of the Democrat left.
Nice try, winger.
Celebrity "justice" has existed for decades. Many decades.
In 1995 OJ Simpson, with his team of high powered attorneys and a mountain of physical & forensic (including DNA) evidence against him was acquitted by his jury with their "deliberations" lasting about an hour or 2.
Obama wasn't in office.
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In 2001 Robert Blake's wife was murdered. A jury acquitted Blake despite a lot of evidence against him, including a witness who told the jury that Blake had tried to hire him as a hitman. Blake was later sued in civil court and found responsible for his wife's murder.
Obama wasn't in office.
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In 1979/80 socialite Claus von BĂĽlow was charged with the attempted murder and later insulin overdose of his wife. He was first convicted then that was overturned and he was acquitted.
Obama wasn't in office.
Last edited by lottamoxie; 08-24-2019 at 12:40 PM..
Doesn't surprise me. When I was first raped I reported it and was accused of being a racist. I was told my rapist was a "nice guy" and that I was "lucky to have him." Well, since my rapist was black then I obviously didn't consent if I was such a racist then that should prove it was rape. I was still a child when it started and couldn't legally consent in the first place. Any way you looked at it, it was rape. The authorities covered it up and criticized me for complaining about it. I was forced by the church and my parents to marry him since I wasn't a virgin anymore, and I could no longer do any better than a black man after it happened anyway (according to them). Well, every white man I've been interested in rejected me after finding out so I guess it was accurate, but I still didn't want to marry that thing. Only white men interested in me were obvious abusive people and I was not interested in them. If I'd kept my mouth shut about being raped, I would never have been forced to marry him. I wouldn't have it ruin my life. It would have been better if I'd been quiet. When I spoke out though, I stupidly thought they would at least make him stop doing stuff to me. I had no idea what would really happen. He worked a government job and was on first name basis with magistrates, cops, the DA, and even judges. The government not only covered up what he had done, but they actively allowed it to continue. Then, after I got away from his home, they court ordered me to live so many miles from him. He went to every lawyer within that mile radius for a consult so that I could not get a lawyer since it would be conflict of interest for them to represent me after consulting with him.
Years after I got away from his home, I was still fighting to get a divorce. After the divorce came through and the restriction was lifted I got out of the state as quick as I could. Then, the government kept letting him know my new address and he was allowed to stalk and terrorize me across state lines. I moved constantly. When I did have a restraining order, the authorities refused to enforce it. He violated the restraining order, even across state lines, and they did nothing to him. When my daughter was a teenager the government raided my home without a warrant and ended up giving her to her biological father, my rapist, and I wasn't allowed to see or talk to her. That's the way the authorities really are, and I learned that I cannot trust any of them. The nightmare began when I was 16 and I'm 43 now and still have never received justice. No closure. I am still even condemned for it by society who keeps claiming I "chose" the father of my child and that what I went through was "consequences" for bad decision. Society allowed it to happen to me while blaming me at the same time. I did all I could do to stop what was happening to me and society allowed it to continue. I was completely powerless to do any more than I was already doing. I have been made to suffer for the choices of other people while being blamed for those choices as though they were my own. He should have been arrested and charged for raping me as a child, and then I could have maybe had a decent life later. Instead, I lived in terror, never knowing when he'd pop up again. Everyone in the area back then knew what he was doing to me. I kept begging for help. No one cared.
I have chronic PTSD and suffer from anxiety and insomnia. My mind is often too scared to fall asleep because I sometimes have dreams where I relive it over and over again. I haven't had a decent night's sleep since I was a child. I'm usually tired. I've been in and out of counseling for a long time now. Doesn't help. The therapist usually just tells me stuff like "you need to get over this" and invalidates what I've been through. I've even had them blame me for what he did to other children while I was legally married to him. I should have done more to protect these other children. I was a child myself. Who was protecting me? How could I protect other children when I was powerless to protect myself?
Women are often better off keeping silent.
I sometimes see people advocate that if the man is found not guilty then the woman be arrested and charged for false accusation. If this ever happens, even more women will keep silent, especially when you have cases like this.
When you see something like this, you have to ask, "what was the jury told, to explain the video"?
What made the jury basically decide not to believe what their own eyes - and the impartial witness - were telling them?
And a follow up question: when the witness called police, presumedly to report a nearly nude woman was dragged against her will into a hotel room, and was pleading for help, why didn't that get top priority response from law enforcement? Why, did she run AGAIN out of the room 13 minutes later, presumedly with no cops showing up yet?
Probably the jury was loaded with democrats and black folks.
I really don't see how whatever her statements were is relevant here. We see what we see.
Whether she initially was embarrassed that she went to a man's hotel room, whether she initially consented to sex, whether she was in fact too drunk to clearly remember all the details, we have video.
Of him chasing her, and dragging her against his will back to his room yelling to a witness for help. TWICE.
To me, that trumps everything else. We SEE what he does, and she's trying her best to get away.
The fact that there were 9 women on the jury isn't a point for justice. Many women will throw other women under the bus same as look at them. She might have gotten a fairer shake if the jury was made up of fathers of young women her age.
I agree, even by my paleo-conservative, old common law definition of rape, ie force is used and she resisted. Assault, kidnapping and rape. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 9 black women on the jury.
The jury was told the tale that he was just trying to "protect her" because she ran out of the room naked...I'm sure there was more to that fictional tale, but that was his claim.
Doesn't surprise me. When I was first raped I reported it and was accused of being a racist. I was told my rapist was a "nice guy" and that I was "lucky to have him." Well, since my rapist was black then I obviously didn't consent if I was such a racist then that should prove it was rape. I was still a child when it started and couldn't legally consent in the first place. Any way you looked at it, it was rape. The authorities covered it up and criticized me for complaining about it. I was forced by the church and my parents to marry him since I wasn't a virgin anymore, and I could no longer do any better than a black man after it happened anyway (according to them). Well, every white man I've been interested in rejected me after finding out so I guess it was accurate, but I still didn't want to marry that thing. Only white men interested in me were obvious abusive people and I was not interested in them. If I'd kept my mouth shut about being raped, I would never have been forced to marry him. I wouldn't have it ruin my life. It would have been better if I'd been quiet. When I spoke out though, I stupidly thought they would at least make him stop doing stuff to me. I had no idea what would really happen. He worked a government job and was on first name basis with magistrates, cops, the DA, and even judges. The government not only covered up what he had done, but they actively allowed it to continue. Then, after I got away from his home, they court ordered me to live so many miles from him. He went to every lawyer within that mile radius for a consult so that I could not get a lawyer since it would be conflict of interest for them to represent me after consulting with him.
Years after I got away from his home, I was still fighting to get a divorce. After the divorce came through and the restriction was lifted I got out of the state as quick as I could. Then, the government kept letting him know my new address and he was allowed to stalk and terrorize me across state lines. I moved constantly. When I did have a restraining order, the authorities refused to enforce it. He violated the restraining order, even across state lines, and they did nothing to him. When my daughter was a teenager the government raided my home without a warrant and ended up giving her to her biological father, my rapist, and I wasn't allowed to see or talk to her. That's the way the authorities really are, and I learned that I cannot trust any of them. The nightmare began when I was 16 and I'm 43 now and still have never received justice. No closure. I am still even condemned for it by society who keeps claiming I "chose" the father of my child and that what I went through was "consequences" for bad decision. Society allowed it to happen to me while blaming me at the same time. I did all I could do to stop what was happening to me and society allowed it to continue. I was completely powerless to do any more than I was already doing. I have been made to suffer for the choices of other people while being blamed for those choices as though they were my own. He should have been arrested and charged for raping me as a child, and then I could have maybe had a decent life later. Instead, I lived in terror, never knowing when he'd pop up again. Everyone in the area back then knew what he was doing to me. I kept begging for help. No one cared.
I have chronic PTSD and suffer from anxiety and insomnia. My mind is often too scared to fall asleep because I sometimes have dreams where I relive it over and over again. I haven't had a decent night's sleep since I was a child. I'm usually tired. I've been in and out of counseling for a long time now. Doesn't help. The therapist usually just tells me stuff like "you need to get over this" and invalidates what I've been through. I've even had them blame me for what he did to other children while I was legally married to him. I should have done more to protect these other children. I was a child myself. Who was protecting me? How could I protect other children when I was powerless to protect myself?
Women are often better off keeping silent.
I sometimes see people advocate that if the man is found not guilty then the woman be arrested and charged for false accusation. If this ever happens, even more women will keep silent, especially when you have cases like this.
A lot of rapes I have read about involve the victim not coming forward immediately because of fear of not being believed or that they deserved it (that is a lie). When you came forward, assuming that you were away you might not believed, what compelled you to come forward from the get-to?
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