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View Poll Results: In USA elections, is it legal or illegal to ask for assistance from a foreign entity?
With regard to election law in the USA asking for assistance from a foreign entity is generally legal. 7 9.86%
With regard to election law in the USA asking for assistance from a foreign entity is always illegal. 64 90.14%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-29-2019, 09:01 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,466,280 times
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Simple poll:
On another thread, the claim was made:
"Asking for election assistance from a foreign government is generally legal."

What do you say? With regard to election law in the USA is this statement true or false?

Fell free to elaborate and/or post links.

Let's get a baseline on this question.
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,872 posts, read 9,554,916 times
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

Quote:
(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(g)Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.

(h)Providing substantial assistance.

(1) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the solicitation, making, acceptance, or receipt of a contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d), and (g) of this section.

(2) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the making of an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement prohibited by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section.
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,872 posts, read 9,554,916 times
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^
I also think this might be relevant:

Quote:
(i)Participation by foreign nationals in decisions involving election-related activities. A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee.
I would say that a foreign national looking for dirt on a US politician who is running for election would be participating in a decision-making process in an election. That is, somebody made a decision to dig up dirt on a political opponent (in this case, Trump on Biden), and he solicited participation by a foreign national to do that work for him. Which would be illegal.
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,627 posts, read 3,398,811 times
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In the case of Trump's call to the Pres. of Ukraine, the "quid" is a crime, no need to prove the "quo"....

Federal law prohibits a foreign national from directly or indirectly making a “contribution or donation of money or other thing of value” in connection with a U.S. election, and prohibits a person from soliciting, accepting or receiving such a contribution or donation from a foreign national. Federal law defines “contribution” to include “any gift … of money or anything of value made by any person for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office.”

Pretty straight forward. Whether or not Ukraine came through, whether or not the communications involved a quid pro quo, the solicitation of a thing of value from the Ukraine President in connection with a U.S. election could be a federal crime. And it should be investigated as such.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:00 PM
 
5,181 posts, read 3,100,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
In the case of Trump's call to the Pres. of Ukraine, the "quid" is a crime, no need to prove the "quo"....

Federal law prohibits a foreign national from directly or indirectly making a “contribution or donation of money or other thing of value” in connection with a U.S. election, and prohibits a person from soliciting, accepting or receiving such a contribution or donation from a foreign national. Federal law defines “contribution” to include “any gift … of money or anything of value made by any person for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office.”

Pretty straight forward. Whether or not Ukraine came through, whether or not the communications involved a quid pro quo, the solicitation of a thing of value from the Ukraine President in connection with a U.S. election could be a federal crime. And it should be investigated as such.
List of candidates on the ballot that would be affected? Neither Biden or Trump have been nominated by their parties. Oh that’s “pretty straight forward”, there are none.

Now it’s your turn to make up another “crime”.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,398,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
^
I also think this might be relevant:


I would say that a foreign national looking for dirt on a US politician who is running for election would be participating in a decision-making process in an election. That is, somebody made a decision to dig up dirt on a political opponent (in this case, Trump on Biden), and he solicited participation by a foreign national to do that work for him. Which would be illegal.


"A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee."

The decision-making, directing, dictating and/or controlling of a person or organization by a foreign national isn't the same as responding to a request by an American to look into possible criminal behavior that is unrelated to any political campaign.

Running for office doesn't give someone a get out of jail free card.


Besides...what does ole' Joe have to worry about?

If he did nothing wrong, he'll be exonerated.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:15 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,655 posts, read 28,708,450 times
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I don't know but when I first heard about it on the news it made my blood boil to think that this president who is supposed to be helping us is using the country's money and his time and energy to try to get a foreign country to dig up dirt on somebody running for office.

AND later when I listened to the call in discussion program that is hosted by a conservative who is also a lawyer, he said Trump was guilty. I don't know about any "quid pro..." but the radio host kept using that expression and saying that, yes, that's what it was. Conservative radio host. I'll keep listening to that program and see what else he has to say--but he always takes the conservative side and is a lawyer too. (This is not stupid "talk radio" this is discussion where they hand out the phone number and people call in with opinions.)
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:04 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 2,404,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
^
I also think this might be relevant:


I would say that a foreign national looking for dirt on a US politician who is running for election would be participating in a decision-making process in an election. That is, somebody made a decision to dig up dirt on a political opponent (in this case, Trump on Biden), and he solicited participation by a foreign national to do that work for him. Which would be illegal.
Yet somehow a politician might be able to find some legal loophole to escape sanctions being committed or used against them.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:13 AM
 
Location: California
37,143 posts, read 42,240,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I don't know but when I first heard about it on the news it made my blood boil to think that this president who is supposed to be helping us is using the country's money and his time and energy to try to get a foreign country to dig up dirt on somebody running for office.

AND later when I listened to the call in discussion program that is hosted by a conservative who is also a lawyer, he said Trump was guilty. I don't know about any "quid pro..." but the radio host kept using that expression and saying that, yes, that's what it was. Conservative radio host. I'll keep listening to that program and see what else he has to say--but he always takes the conservative side and is a lawyer too. (This is not stupid "talk radio" this is discussion where they hand out the phone number and people call in with opinions.)
Did you read the transcript yourself or are you totally dependent on others to describe the world to you?

You probably shouldn't be voting btw
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:42 AM
 
1,289 posts, read 939,006 times
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Default Interestingly enough, his executive order of September 2018

Executive Order 13848 1(a), Sept 12 2018

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ates-election/
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