Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Freedom means you and your family have health care no matter what happens to your job. The health of your family being tied to employment is not freedom.
National health care systems are always cheaper than our system. Always. No matter the population. Germany's 83 million people system is not more expensive per person than Austria's system of 8 million people. Things scale up.
The question people have to ask themselves is why its so great to be told you have to die because you cant afford treatment. This is the reality for thousands upon thousands of people every year.
A couple of reasons why in those nations it's allegedly cheaper:
A. Americans are fat and unhealthy
B. With UHC they don't get as good of treatment which doesn't cost as much
And there are millions and millions and millions of Americans who are happy in their careers and like their insurance.
And if you lose your job, COBRA covers you for 18 months. It's expensive, but you don't just get kicked off when you change jobs.
A couple of reasons why in those nations it's allegedly cheaper:
A. Americans are fat and unhealthy
B. With UHC they don't get as good of treatment which doesn't cost as much
And there are millions and millions and millions of Americans who are happy in their careers and like their insurance.
Both arguments are baloney.
Americans being fat means far less expenses on old age care (because of early death) which is the most expensive part of a health care system.
People get great treatment in the rest of the developed world.
You can deny it all you want, but people do NOT have real freedom when the health of their family is in the hands of an employer. Its like saying women had real freedom in the 19th century.
Americans being fat means far less expenses on old age care (because of early death) which is the most expensive part of a health care system.
Huh? I didn't say Americans don't live long lives, I just said we're fat. Our medical technology keeps people alive that would otherwise be dead. All kinds of health issues come from being overweight/obese. Even that aside, I know so many older people that are so sick, with so many ailments, that should be dead, yet they keep chugging along because medicine today is so insane, health care so good here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
People get great treatment in the rest of the developed world.
Not as good as here, sorry. USA has world's best health care. Why do the rich British celebs come here for surgery? Cancer survival rates are the best here because we have the best technology and innovation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
You can deny it all you want, but people do NOT have real freedom when the health of their family is in the hands of an employer. Its like saying women had real freedom in the 19th century.
I'm not denying anything, but sorry, your argument is really stupid. You're saying I'm not free because I have a job I like? Any job I were to switch to would offer great healthcare, too. Not having freedom is being forced off your private insurance and weaned into garbage M4A. It won't ever happen here.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,743,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister 7
Huh? I didn't say Americans don't live long lives, I just said we're fat. Our medical technology keeps people alive that would otherwise be dead. All kinds of health issues come from being overweight/obese. Even that aside, I know so many older people that are so sick, with so many ailments, that should be dead, yet they keep chugging along because medicine today is so insane, health care so good here.
Not as good as here, sorry. USA has world's best health care. Why do the rich British celebs come here for surgery? Cancer survival rates are the best here because we have the best technology and innovation.
I'm not denying anything, but sorry, your argument is really stupid. You're saying I'm not free because I have a job I like? Any job I were to switch to would offer great healthcare, too. Not having freedom is being forced off your private insurance and weaned into garbage M4A. It won't ever happen here.
Per the bolded, you answered your own stupid question. Almost everybody is not rich !
Huh? I didn't say Americans don't live long lives, I just said we're fat. Our medical technology keeps people alive that would otherwise be dead. All kinds of health issues come from being overweight/obese. Even that aside, I know so many older people that are so sick, with so many ailments, that should be dead, yet they keep chugging along because medicine today is so insane, health care so good here.
Obesity leads to far more early deaths in America. Its a fact. It reduces costs for old age care. Its the reality. To simply assume that obesity leads to higher costs without understanding the advantages of that from a cost perspective is silly.
Medicine is far from insane. Very, very few people live longer than 90 these days. Most die in their 70s and early 80s and there's not much progress.
Regarding celebrities getting top notch health care in America, of course, for the well-heeled its great, but still, a country of 330 million people is always bound to have more specialists. Lots of celebrities and rich people also go to the UK or Germany. It means nothing.
Yes, you are not free when the employer decides life and death. You keep saying your employer is so great, but that's like women in the 19th century saying their husband is so great so they are free. There's a huge disparity of power whether you like it or not.
Obesity leads to far more early deaths in America. Its a fact. It reduces costs for old age care. Its the reality. To simply assume that obesity leads to higher costs without understanding the advantages of that from a cost perspective is silly.
Okay I'm not going to debate this further....fat people are the reason "it's so expensive per capita" here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
Medicine is far from insane. Very, very few people live longer than 90 these days. Most die in their 70s and early 80s and there's not much progress.
I guess you don't live in America. Where do you live? My aunt by family friend, there's not a disease she doesn't have. Heart and lung trouble, diabetes, RA, etc. etc. you name it. She would have been dead many years ago if we didn't have the technology we have. My doctor told me he has a 95 year old patient with HIV that's undetectable.
And let's see, all my Grandparents lived to late 80s, and I still have one alive Grandmother who will be 95 next month.
I don't want to live to be 110; that's not what I mean by our excellent health care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
Yes, you are not free when the employer decides life and death. You keep saying your employer is so great, but that's like women in the 19th century saying their husband is so great so they are free. There's a huge disparity of power whether you like it or not.
This is so stupid and dramatic. I have never in my life felt not free and stuck to my employer because it's a matter of life and death. If you lose your job, quit, etc. you have COBRA for 18 months which extends your insurance. Again you must not be an American-- we're the freest nation on Earth. But the libs and people like you want to make it less free.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,743,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister 7
Okay I'm not going to debate this further....fat people are the reason "it's so expensive per capita" here.
I guess you don't live in America. Where do you live? My aunt by family friend, there's not a disease she doesn't have. Heart and lung trouble, diabetes, RA, etc. etc. you name it. She would have been dead many years ago if we didn't have the technology we have. My doctor told me he has a 95 year old patient with HIV that's undetectable.
And let's see, all my Grandparents lived to late 80s, and I still have one alive Grandmother who will be 95 next month.
I don't want to live to be 110; that's not what I mean by our excellent health care.
This is so stupid and dramatic. I have never in my life felt not free and stuck to my employer because it's a matter of life and death. If you lose your job, quit, etc. you have COBRA for 18 months which extends your insurance. Again you must not be an American-- we're the freest nation on Earth. But the libs and people like you want to make it less free.
COBRA is insanely expensive for the average person
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
