I debated a Socialist who said M4A will result in a huge TAX CUT for Americans... (deaths, rates)

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by whogo

I’m not. I’ve seen the difference first hand between private insurance and Medicare.

People don’t like taxes either.

You must be independently wealthy then. The average deductible these days is $5,000. I don't have that, and most people don't either

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by whogo

Whose plan is this?

Zero out of pocket costs means overutilization of healthcare services.

That's EXACTLY what happened when Obamacare expanded Medicaid: Obamacare proponents insisted that ERs would be used less if Medicaid was expanded. The exact opposite happened. Medicaid recipients flooded ERs for their own convenience because they weren't paying the extra costs for ER service.

The Obama administration said "they were going to be able to drive folks away from one of the most expensive areas for the provision of health care, and that is the emergency rooms. In fact, they did just the opposite."- Politifact

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by whogo

Whose plan is this?

Zero out of pocket costs means overutilization of healthcare services.

It doesn't mean overutilization. It means that a queue is formed by urgency. Someone having a heart attack will be seen right away, while someone with a cramp might have to wait a bit, like it should be.

Here in our screwed up system, the person with the cramp will get seen first if he has a fat bank account, leaving the person having the heart attack to die

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

Well, be ready to pay out of pocket for private insurance or travel abroad for medical care. As already noted:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/canad...EJAVMnJIOgTamr

Nope, your sources are bull**** and real Canadians have even said so

[Lola The yorkie]

Originally Posted by Northman83

Just found another article from WSJ from 2012, that a appendectomy in the US costs $28.800, and just $3000 in Germany.

What % oftheirincome do Germans pay intakes? Ourfriendin
The Netherlands says he pays over 50%.

[Grlzrl]

Originally Posted by Mister 7

It doesn't matter the total cost of my insurance. What matters is how much I pay, the net cost. Why do people have so much hate for employers subsidizing insurance? It's not like it's taxpayer money. And when it is taxpayer money for you people it's okay? Makes no sense.

Lol and there are millions and millions and millions of Americans who love their jobs/benefits. They're not stuck for the insurance, sheesh.

There are people who hate capitalism plain and simple. My sister is one of them. We were interviewing assisted living places for my mom and she kept going on and on about this one place that was non profit. Probably spent 20 minutes of 30 talking about it. She is just against profit of any kind.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Grlzrl

There are people who hate capitalism plain and simple. My sister is one of them. We were interviewing assisted living places for my mom and she kept going on and on about this one place that was non profit. Probably spent 20 minutes of 30 talking about it. She is just against profit of any kind.

Anyone who doesn't see the moral hazard in having peoples life expectancy determined by the size of their wallet has no morals

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by whogo

The fact is most Americans have better insurance than Medicare and they know it.

Run on Medicare for All and guarantee Trump four more years.

An expanded Medicare would be far superior to private insurance. Cheaper, better and give people far more freedom. What's so great about being told that you have to die because you can't afford the treatment bills?

[Mister 7]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

An expanded Medicare would be far superior to private insurance. Cheaper, better and give people far more freedom. What's so great about being told that you have to die because you can't afford the treatment bills?

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

Cheaper? Thats' a joke.

Better? Yeah a nation of 330M let's see how long it takes to get that MRI or Hip replaced with UHC.

Far more freedom? I can see any doctor I want in the humongous BCBS network, and I need no referrals for specialists.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by Mister 7

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

Cheaper? Thats' a joke.

Better? Yeah a nation of 330M let's see how long it takes to get that MRI or Hip replaced with UHC.

Far more freedom? I can see any doctor I want in the humongous BCBS network, and I need no referrals for specialists.

Freedom means you and your family have health care no matter what happens to your job. The health of your family being tied to employment is not freedom.

National health care systems are always cheaper than our system. Always. No matter the population. Germany's 83 million people system is not more expensive per person than Austria's system of 8 million people. Things scale up.

The question people have to ask themselves is why its so great to be told you have to die because you cant afford treatment. This is the reality for thousands upon thousands of people every year.