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Man you guys love moving the goalposts. ERs take people because a First World country shouldn't let people die on the streets if they don't have insurance. What kind of Mad Max hellscape do you want America to be, exactly?
And all public education is paid for with public dollars, even if you don't have any kids whatsoever. That doesn't change without immigrants. Furthermore, most public schools are paid for through property taxes. Even undocumented immigrants pay rent somewhere, and rent prices include assessed property tax values. Therefore, undocumented immigrants actually do contribute to public schools, even if they also don't have children within them.
I'm not moving any goalposts. You're the one arguing that the societal cost of illegal immigration is zero or an actual positive. That is false.
Man you guys love moving the goalposts. ERs take people because a First World country shouldn't let people die on the streets if they don't have insurance. What kind of Mad Max hellscape do you want America to be, exactly?
And all public education is paid for with public dollars, even if you don't have any kids whatsoever. That doesn't change without immigrants. Furthermore, most public schools are paid for through property taxes. Even undocumented immigrants pay rent somewhere, and rent prices include assessed property tax values. Therefore, undocumented immigrants actually do contribute to public schools, even if they also don't have children within them.
I believe in ERs treating all emergencies, regardless of the persons ability to pay.
That’s exactly why the illegal aliens shouldn’t be here.
Education is often paid for with property taxes. But at $10K-$20K per kid, per year, poor people dont pay nearly enough in property taxes to cover their children’s education, so they are subsidized by the property taxes of the middle and upper classes. On top of that, states like mine, subsidize the poor school districts with state income tax dollars, and many, if not most illegal immigrants, live in poor school districts.
Another Great reason why illegal aliens shouldn’t be here.
We regulate the amount of legal immigrants that can come here, because of the cost that the citizens incur from them. The illegal aliens rob us from our right to do that. They are basically saying, “We don't care about your laws, we are coming whether you like it or not.”
The argument here is not whether EO is wrong or right.
Any president can use EO if the need arise.
DACA was an EO done under Obama. But like I've repeated it a number of times here EO are temporary measures for a problem than can be stopped or changed at anytime by another president.
Weren't you just arguing that DACA is a problem because Congress is supposed to address immigration? Again, I question whether you're arguing in good faith here and that the real position is not about procedure or what a president can and can't do, but rather just being against immigrants in any capacity. No, I don't believe this is about their legal status.
I believe in ERs treating all emergencies, regardless of the persons ability to pay.
That’s exactly why the illegal aliens shouldn’t be here.
Education is often paid for with property taxes. But at $10K-$20K per kid, per year, poor people dont pay nearly enough in property taxes to cover their children’s education, so they are subsidized by the property taxes of the middle and upper classes. On top of that, states like mine, subsidize the poor school districts with state income tax dollars, and many, if not most illegal immigrants, live in poor school districts.
Another Great reason why illegal aliens shouldn’t be here.
We regulate the amount of legal immigrants that can come here, because of the cost that the citizens incur from them. The illegal aliens rob us from our right to do that. They are basically saying, “We don't care about your laws, we are coming whether you like it or not.”
You're arguing symptoms. It is not the fault of the immigrant that they can go to an ER. That is our system, and plenty of uninsured natives do the exact same thing. It's not any different than blaming an immigrant for being hired at a job rather than those doing the hiring. In both cases, we're blaming those taking advantage of the system that we have freely set up. No one is really arguing about the system being the problem when that should be the debate, which is exactly why I don't believe everyone is being honest in their arguments against undocumented immigrants.
You continue that with education. Whether legal or not, immigrants would be paying into public schools no differently than any native would. Why are we holding them more accountable than we would anyone else when we have created the system for school funding? The argument was that undocumented don't pay into public education. They, in fact, do. Now you're arguing that they don't pay enough, yet they are paying the same as everyone else. So we're back to a broken system again.
None of these issues were created by undocumented immigrants or had any hand in creating systems with obvious problems, yet everyone is arguing that they are not only uniquely responsible, but there is the suggestion that such problems will be solved without the undocumented. That's a blatant lie. Which again leads me back to the conclusion that all of the arguments are simply excuses to deport immigrants.
You're arguing symptoms. It is not the fault of the immigrant that they can go to an ER. That is our system, and plenty of uninsured natives do the exact same thing. It's not any different than blaming an immigrant for being hired at a job rather than those doing the hiring. In both cases, we're blaming those taking advantage of the system that we have freely set up. No one is really arguing about the system being the problem when that should be the debate, which is exactly why I don't believe everyone is being honest in their arguments against undocumented immigrants.
You continue that with education. Whether legal or not, immigrants would be paying into public schools no differently than any native would. Why are we holding them more accountable than we would anyone else when we have created the system for school funding? The argument was that undocumented don't pay into public education. They, in fact, do. Now you're arguing that they don't pay enough, yet they are paying the same as everyone else. So we're back to a broken system again.
None of these issues were created by undocumented immigrants or had any hand in creating systems with obvious problems, yet everyone is arguing that they are not only uniquely responsible, but there is the suggestion that such problems will be solved without the undocumented. That's a blatant lie. Which again leads me back to the conclusion that all of the arguments are simply excuses to deport immigrants.
Why are you comparing illegal aliens to natives and legal residents? Those programs were created for natives and legal residents of this country, and I am glad for it. The illegals are stealing from our system.
If poor citizens and legal residents equal “X”, then we have to pay for “X”. I assume we have no argument there. We can add a certain amount of new legal residents per year without overwhelming the system. That is why we regulate immigration. The illegals take that right away from us. Now we have to pay for X+20,000,000. That is not what our society bargained for.
“Why are we holding them more accountable?”
Because they are not supposed to be here. They are people that we shouldn’t be forced to pay for, and if they didn’t break our laws, we wouldn’t be.
There is not such thing as an undocumented immigrant they are illegal aliens according to immigration law.
You call them whatever you want. The concept of a human being "illegal" strikes me as very wrong and seriously dehumanizing... which I guess is the point.
Why are you comparing illegal aliens to natives and legal residents? Those programs were created for natives and legal residents of this country, and I am glad for it. The illegals are stealing from our system.
If poor citizens and legal residents equal “X”, then we have to pay for “X”. I assume we have no argument there. We can add a certain amount of new legal residents per year without overwhelming the system. That is why we regulate immigration. The illegals take that right away from us. Now we have to pay for X+20,000,000. That is not what our society bargained for.
“Why are we holding them more accountable?”
Because they are not supposed to be here. They are people that we shouldn’t be forced to pay for, and if they didn’t break our laws, we wouldn’t be.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
You are creating arbitrary distinctions. You are saying it's not wrong for a native to take advantage of a broken system, but it's super wrong for someone else. The problem is that ANYONE can take advantage of a broken system and that broken system will continue to exist even with zero undocumented immigrants. You're not advocating to fix the system, only for punishing certain people using it. This seems to me to be a massive miss on priorities. Imagine a system that works for natives and in which undocumented cannot take advantage of. Isn't that the goal? Being cruel to people solves nothing except maybe satisfying some animalistic need to see different people suffer. In that regard, I hope your nickname doesn't mean you're a doctor. Talk about missing the point.
You are creating arbitrary distinctions. You are saying it's not wrong for a native to take advantage of a broken system, but it's super wrong for someone else. The problem is that ANYONE can take advantage of a broken system and that broken system will continue to exist even with zero undocumented immigrants. You're not advocating to fix the system, only for punishing certain people using it. This seems to me to be a massive miss on priorities. Imagine a system that works for natives and in which undocumented cannot take advantage of? Isn't that the goal? Being cruel to people solves nothing except maybe satisfying some animalistic need to see different people suffer. In that regard, I hope your nickname doesn't mean you're a doctor. Talk about missing the point.
“Talk about missing the point.” is right!
What system is broken?
The only system that is broken, is the one that allows illegal aliens to thrive here.
Is that the broken system you are talking about? If so, then there is something we can agree upon.
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