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Old 11-21-2019, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,377,888 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I feel horrible for the guy's family, but rule one of concealed carry should be if you're going to shoot someone, you better be a decent shot, as non-paper targets sometimes shoot back.


https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Gun-owner-killed-trying-to-stop-Houston-pawn-shop-14852131.php
What in the world are you blabbering about?

A man has a right to property.

A man has a right to self-defense.

The victim died on his feet instead of living on his knees. Is that what really bothers you here?
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Gods country
8,105 posts, read 6,757,036 times
Reputation: 10421
Unless me or a loved one are being shot at I’m not intervening in anything. Two reasons are the subject of this OP and my liberal neighbors being on a jury that would judge me.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:42 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,238,960 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Ya, you're not a loon in real life I bet

I don't care as long as the ladies still find me attractive.

.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:44 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,238,960 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
You fems can barely handle meat let alone a gun

Neither can the gun nuts. That didn't seem to stop them.


.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:49 AM
 
16,603 posts, read 8,622,620 times
Reputation: 19437
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
That is a perfect example of the fallacy that all gun carriers are able to effectively protect themselves in a panic situation. I have sharpshooter medals from the service, and am a pretty good shot, but, after years of not touching my guns, I would be very rusty and probably bungle the job, if I had to react.

Trained professionals PRACTICE all the time to keep their skills honed, most average Joes and Janes THINK they are capable, but when they are faced with an emergency situation, they freeze or even shoot bystanders by mistake. Have there been times when a gun carrier did successfully shoot some perp ? Sure, but those are rare times, compared to it going the other way.

Last place I want to be is in a crowd when some good Samaritan tries to play John Wayne, and sprays bullets all over the place.
There is so much wrong with this post.

For starters self defense is a God given right and firearm ownership and use is protected from government interference by our Constitution. No where is it required one must be effective or even proficient in using their hands, feet, clubs, knives or yes, even firearms to try and defend themselves. Swinging wildly with haymakers may not normally win a fight, but it is better than saying I don't know how to fight, so go ahead and beat me.

As to your point about trained professionals, I presume you are mostly referring to LEO's who in the civilian populace are charged with keeping the peace. Rest assured some of the things that happen to Joe sixpack in stressful situations also happen to LEO's despite supposedly being able or better prepared to deal with emergencies.
Here is a news flash for you in case you do not already know.
Most departments only have a minimal requirement to qualify at the range once a year. I say requirement loosely, as many an exception is made for those who do not pass the 1st, 2nd, or even the 3rd time. Those type of union rules and/or minority consent decree quotas keep some LEO's on the job, even if they cannot hit the broad side of a barn, or panic when needed to perform.
So rest assured not every LEO is like the ones in Magnum Force always honing their skills to where they are expert marksmen;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs8AqzN9Ga4



Sadly this is more common than you might imagine;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOI9ahGxMfk




So hopefully the myth of LEO's in tip top shape, regularly training in self defense and shooting skills is just that, a myth.
Personally I think the requirements should be more exhaustive and mandatory, however that is because we charge them with a paid responsibility to be as good as they can.
Civilians (your average Joe) is a different story. We have minimal standards for driving, yet many civilians are a daily menace on the road.
Driving of course is a privilege, not a Constitutional right.

However, I will throw you one bone, in discussing said right. The 2nd Amendment does say a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
It is a succinct and unambiguous statement of a right the government is prohibited from restricting. Anyone who has read the Federalist papers, to best understand exactly what the Founding Fathers meant by it, knows this.
As you may or may not know, every single able bodied citizen of a certain age was considered part of the militia (not just professional soldiers). Thus if they were needed to protect our constitutional republic from enemies, they needed to have the weapons and skill to do so.
Therefore I'd be happy to see citizens required to serve in the military and/or reserves for a mandatory 2 years. They would acquire the requisite skills that way, and would hopefully maintain said skills throughout their lives.
However since our civilians leaders have chosen to eliminate the draft and there is no compulsory service required, it is left to the individual to be prepared to adequately defend themselves and others if the need ever arises.

The bottom line is our rights as free American citizens should not be contingent on passing tests/requirements to exercise our rights.
If so, where does it stop, speech, voting, etc. ?

`
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Old 11-22-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I feel horrible for the guy's family, but rule one of concealed carry should be if you're going to shoot someone, you better be a decent shot, as non-paper targets sometimes shoot back.


https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Gun-owner-killed-trying-to-stop-Houston-pawn-shop-14852131.php
There is another rule, which is the fact that a concealed weapons license does not make you a police officer. If you see a robbery, you call the cops, and let the store owner recoup his losses from insurance. Don't play John Wayne in a pawn shop, especially if its not even your shop.

This was stressed many times when I took the concealed carry class.
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Old 11-22-2019, 08:52 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,664,869 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
The thing is, the gun nuts say they should bear arms to guard against state/government tyranny.

Then I say: Cool, we can use our guns against the tyrannical treasonous administration headed by Trump.

Gun nuts:


.
Go for it !!! Didn't someone try that at a baseball field ??? How did that work out for them ? If memory is correct only one person died !!! The shooter !!! Consider carefully the likely outcome before carrying out your brainstorm or encouraging others to do the same !!!
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Old 11-22-2019, 08:55 AM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,697 posts, read 34,579,481 times
Reputation: 29291
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Then I say: Cool, we can use our guns against the tyrannical treasonous administration headed by Trump.
go for it.

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Old 11-22-2019, 09:12 AM
 
8,079 posts, read 10,085,641 times
Reputation: 22675
Most of these wanna be cowboys couldn't hit the broad side of a barn--even if they were standing inside of it.


Ever shoot somebody? It is not as easy as it looks on TV. Your body goes into a shock mode and you start to shake like a mother. Can't stop it. Try aiming accurately and pulling the trigger while you are shaking like a leaf. Many of these shooters end up with holes in their feet !


Put the guns away, folks. Any time you introduce a weapon into a hostile situation you more than likely escalate the situation, and you more than likely become the victim.


Was it really worth dying trying to protect a used merchandise store? Probably not.
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Old 11-22-2019, 09:17 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,566 posts, read 17,241,593 times
Reputation: 17612
Quote:
Originally Posted by justus978 View Post
...no you don't...

human resources would charge you with bullying because you are telling someone what they feel
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