Will New York and California collapse due to taxes? (wage, border, Sacramento)
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NY and CA. are two of the greatest economic engines driving the USA and the World.
If you want to worry about economic collapse, consider:
1. Trillion dollar Federal Deficits and more and more national debt.
2. Failure of Federal Government to address health care.
3. The basic fact that MANY areas have ALREADY collapsed. I invite you to tour many areas of the coal mining country, the rust belt, etc. and witness it first hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
No doubt Florida and Texas love their slave wages...some of the lowest min. wages in the USA and immigrant friendly Ag work policies. Between those two states I think we are talking 4 Million quasi-legal and illegal workers...let alone 10 million low wage Americans.......
Sad.
Yes and if Texas were an independent nation it would have the 9th largest gdp on earth. Florida would have the 17th largest. So what! It's all about the disparity of wealth, cost of living, taxation, etc. There are much smaller economies in Europe with less disparity in wealth, stronger middle class, less homeless, better safety net etc.
My wife and I make around 92 percentile in NYC or 95 percentile nationally. Obviously we could save a ton moving to a state like Texas but would we be able to find jobs that pay just as well? Highly unlikely. We're not rich but comfortable enough to not want to move.
My wife and I make around 92 percentile in NYC or 95 percentile nationally. Obviously we could save a ton moving to a state like Texas but would we be able to find jobs that pay just as well? Highly unlikely. We're not rich but comfortable enough to not want to move.
That's the point! All of these low cost of living places have jobs with salaries that are much lower, too. For retirees like me, moving to a lower-cost area makes a lot of sense. I don't need a job. But unless you make a killing selling your home and you've paid off a lot of its mortgage, moving to a lower cost area with lower paying salaries may end up being a "financial wash" if you're still working.
Rural conservative areas in this country have always been hellholes and always will be.
Economically, culturally, aesthetically and infrastructure-wise (health care, transportation).
It's a nightmare.
The sweet spot, generally speaking, for those priced out of the coasts is to find a suburban/semi-rural area that's pretty close to a major city in a lowish taxation/lowish COL state. Your economy, culture, aesthetics, and infrastructure are decent enough while paying 60% to 70% less in rent than I do in Santa Monica.
Outside of a Cleveland or an Indianapolis comes to mind.
I'm talking historically.
In general, poor appalachian white and Southern Delta Blacks went north for jobs when the USA was big in manufacturing.......
All the bad bad bad bad things people say about Detroit have nothing to do with the fact that "black people are there". Same with Flint, etc. -
The US tends to have a "use it up and throw it away" mentality which extends to both people and to cities, industries and regions...and it's not working out well.
Ohio was industrial enough to keep the American Dream going for workers there until that 1970's or so....then thing started going downhill. This contributed to some of the opiate crisis once these folks went for a generation and the Dream was getting smaller.
I'm with you on the sweet spot...my son picked Pittsburgh and loves it! He owns 4 houses now (investments) - and the entire area in on the move. I think the same will eventually happen with Detroit.
Even Florida is quite inexpensive in many areas..although the heat and humidity are really bad if you have to do outside work. We live in an area where a DIY type of family could buy a nice place for 200K and with another 20 or so into it, it would be a great small family homes. LOTS of ways to make money in the trades and similar jobs there.
The only problem with all of this is that it does away with a lot of the normal family and tribal ties. Ideally most people would be able to live and thrive in the regions they were born into.
This was/is difficult in the OP (NY and CA) due to the incredibly high demand and prices caused by excess of success. But that's an issue in itself.
NY and CA are losing population and seen as unsustainable to the middle class.and seem to be self sorting into the very rich and very poor, utilizing generous welfare in the states.
Businneses are opting not to be in either state and they still raise taxes for more government actions.
What's the long term outlook here? How can these states continue?
I cannot decipher your first sentence or much of your posting. I think you are trying to say that the middle classes are leaving states like NY and CA. As a result, those states are left with those economically on the bottom and the top without the middle. Yes?
In the next sentence you are stating that businesses are opting to not move operations?, headquarters? What? to these states because--I'm not sure what you believe here. On top of these companies not moving, let's stick to, operations, these states continue to raise taxes (what taxes) in order to allow the government (I assume you mean state here) to take more actions (what actions).
Third sentence: The answers are out there already or at least projections.
Good luck getting a clear answer. You may want to try an re-write so you a clearer.
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I cashed out my house in NY and moved to Florida. I now have no mortgage and I pay half in property tax from 5 years ago. I did the math. We save around 25k extra a year by moving down here.
One thing not mentioned is the benefit of a high cost state upon retirement. A mediocre job in a high cost state will still get you a much higher Social Security payment than the same job upon retirement in a low wage state. And if you happen to own your house in a high wage state you likely move to that low wage state with enough cash to buy a place in full and have a safety net. Its basically what a bunch of my relatives whose families lived in New York for decades have done. We used to have family picnics with over 200 people when everyone still lived in NY, now we would be lucky to get 30 or 40. The payout was just to good to pass up.
NY and CA are losing population and seen as unsustainable to the middle class.and seem to be self sorting into the very rich and very poor, utilizing generous welfare in the states.
Businneses are opting not to be in either state and they still raise taxes for more government actions.
What's the long term outlook here? How can these states continue?
No problem. They'll just raise taxes on the rest of us.
One thing not mentioned is the benefit of a high cost state upon retirement. A mediocre job in a high cost state will still get you a much higher Social Security payment than the same job upon retirement in a low wage state. And if you happen to own your house in a high wage state you likely move to that low wage state with enough cash to buy a place in full and have a safety net. Its basically what a bunch of my relatives whose families lived in New York for decades have done. We used to have family picnics with over 200 people when everyone still lived in NY, now we would be lucky to get 30 or 40. The payout was just to good to pass up.
My parents did the same thing. My dad had a fairly decent job and retired in 2008. My parents moved to suburban Charlotte the following year, purchasing a home for considerably less than they sold on Long Island. Didn't go free and clear, but have a relatively small mortgage and left with a pretty nice cushion into their retirement.
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