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I spent some time in southern Arizona, it takes some getting used to but I could be convinced to go back.... not to Fort Huachuca, but to southern Arizona in general.
I live in the Cochise County area, not all that far from Ft Huachuca in fact. But I grew up in Maricopa County.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrw-500
Is Shreveport is more worse than Detroit or East St. Louis?
For me...Yes. By a long shot.
Metro Detroit and the city itself is full of great things to do. Great nightlife, excellent shopping, 4 major sports teams (all with new stadiums), incredible eats and bars, and it’s right across the river from Windsor, Ontario.
And the outdoor activities are simply astonishing. Detroit’s Metro Park system is very nice, and the fishing (the only outdoor activity I like) is IMO the best in the country. Love Detroit.
East St Louis? That’s not even a city. LMAO...that’s a blip on the map. ESL isn’t comparable to a city like Shreveport. When you cross the river into ESL from STL, you drive a few miles and you’re outta East St Louis before you ever realize you were there. It’s a one high school town! It’s no more than maybe 13 or 14 square miles in area. There’s only one main drag running thru the town. The population is tiny, and most of the city is old warehouses, vacant lots, railroad yards, shipping container yards, old factories and the huge prison complex. The actual neighborhoods are tiny. There’s only 20 something thousand people there, and they’re spread out in little pockets around the city.
In fact, when I used to spend a few days picking up and delivering vehicles to Scott AFB, I used to treat the whole crew to BBQ over on St Clair Ave in East St Louis. Can’t remember the name of the place, but it was outstanding. We always looked forward to that trip. Good people in that town. Sure, there’s poverty, but they’re just trying to make the best out of a bad situation. That makes them heroic in their struggle, not bad. Some of my underlings were kinda scared to go over there at first, but that changed once they saw that the place was filled with local cops and corrections officers from the state prison nearby. Besides, I’m never scared of my own people anyway.
But I’d pick East St Louis because of its proximity to St Louis. And St Louis is my kinda town.
Actually, poverty COSTS the US economy about 4% of GDP per year, around $500B in terms of lost productivity, earnings, poor health, and crime.
Social safety net programs help lift low income people into higher incomes - and with higher incomes, there is more spending into the consumer economy.
Now, to address your justification of corporate welfare - to companies who can afford to pay their way, unlike poor families:
The tax subsidies and other incentives are way more than that.
Try up to $1.3B from the state of Mississippi, which is dead last in many economic and social indicators. For about 4,500 jobs, thats about $290K of taxpayer funds to "buy" a job.
The ROI is still far less than 1 for welfare. Don't mislead people. Welfare does not eliminate poverty and does save $500B.
Why are you talking about Mississippi? We were talking about Nissan in Tennessee. I gave numbers for Tennessee.
Btw, your biased link fails to mention the tax revenues the state/local governments collected.
I read through the thread, and the democratic socialists responses, it shows how they view things with a emotional social justice mindset where the rich are evil and have too much by default and how certain justice dictates they should be persecuted to spread to others.
Queens lost 25K jobs that would have transformed the area creating jobs for to included many of black and hispanic origin that could have elevated their lives , yet they won't be instead they will continue to be financially less than, because their leaders the democrats and also a percentage who vote for them have the mindset that rich business are evil greedy entities and that they owe people by default. So instead the person in Queens on welfare will continue on welfare (sucking up tax money while tax funds decrease with the lost Amazon deal) instead of becoming self reliant with a job, the drug dealer in Queens will continue to sell drugs because there isn't a job available otherwise.
Now envision a democrat socialist SJW like AOC in control of congress and the white house, how they now at the helm of the U.S.A which again by their mindset is too fat, too rich how they would handle international negotiations, they would do the same as the Queens/Amazon situation, to undermine the U.S.A for the sake of fairness in their mind, for the other countries in the world, signing a climate change accord where the U.S.A pays most is just one example, illegal immigration is another example.
Let me cry the nonsense you just had to write up. Queens is being transformed as we speak and has been for the past 2 decades. They are plenty of jobs to be had in the NYC area. The subway system is at and above capacity limits. Imagine of all those new people on the 7 train. Golly gosh. Queens does not need those jobs. What about Amazon going to upstate NY and work with the SUNY college system????
You guys are too impressed with job number claims. Divide their claims in half and you MIGHT be close to the number they say. Corporations lie their asses off.
You guys are too impressed with job number claims. Divide their claims in half and you MIGHT be close to the number they say. Corporations lie their asses off.
I can remember how conservatives were trashing AOC when she made it clear that Amazon had no business asking for tax incentives to move into NYC. So Amazon supposedly decided to cancel the deal.
Yeah, they canceled it alright. They’ve actually decided to go ahead with the deal regardless of the fact that they aren’t getting the incentive package.
This is how business is supposed to be done in the United States. If you want to set up business, then do so, but don’t go around asking municipalities to give you everything but the kitchen sink. That’s bad corporate behavior, and cities and states shouldn’t put up with it. Either this is a capitalist country, or it isn’t. Privatizing profit and socializing risk should be a no go.
Oh yeah...there’s this:
Yep. Looks like Facebook is coming to NYC too. I guess the notion that high taxes blah, blah, blah would keep businesses from coming to New York isn’t exactly true, is it? They aren’t gonna get the incentives either I’m sure.
When I was working in Manhattan for 3 months for a contract job, I cannot tell you how many New Yorkers were pissed at her for Amazon's decision to not come to NYC. While she didn't actually deliver the final blow herself, she played a role, and NYers were vocal about it. Hell, I remember hearing a two Hispanics talking about it in a cafe, and one of them said, "She's a disgrace to Hispanics everywhere. Those were jobs we all could've used and now they're gone. She doesn't represent us. She just wanted her votes."
Oh, and Facebook has had a headquarters in NYC for quite some time now. They even have FB themed subway trains, equipped with Wi-Fi and workstations for employees.
The ROI is still far less than 1 for welfare. Don't mislead people. Welfare does not eliminate poverty and does save $500B.
Why are you talking about Mississippi? We were talking about Nissan in Tennessee. I gave numbers for Tennessee.
Btw, your biased link fails to mention the tax revenues the state/local governments collected.
By your reasoning, that means we shouldn't have police departments because they don't eliminate crimes like murder and extortion. LOL. Well, social programs aren't necessarily there to compare for business metrics. They're there for societal reasons that go beyond dollars and cents - but they do make economic sense.
The information about corporate subsidies is only "biased" because you don't agree with it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
Well TN gave Nissan "only" $536M in goodies. My bad! That's a cost of about $160K per job. So ya'll did a bit "better" than MS in that regard. But it still doesn't make it good public policy and economic policy.
Economic studies show that such "incentives" have little effect on overall economic growth...
“Reducing the taxes paid” is giving them money, genius.
That’s the money needed to pay for schools, police, roads, firemen, etc...infrastructure that Amazon uses and should pay for.
LMAO, what?! Since when is it Amazon's responsibility to take care of schools, police, roads, and other outlets that our government is supposed to fund money into? They pay taxes just like we do, so they have made their contribution. Please stop, you have no idea how this works.
You guys are too impressed with job number claims. Divide their claims in half and you MIGHT be close to the number they say. Corporations lie their asses off.
And politicians don't. If they only bring half the promised presence they'll only get half the tax incentives.
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