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Old 01-05-2020, 02:22 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,525,116 times
Reputation: 16962

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy ol' Man View Post
I really don't believe you are looking for an answer, you got several good ones and aren't satisfied.. Sounds like a troll to me..
If "sounding like a troll" were any indictment on here, there'd be no further need for the bandwidth they're buying.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:23 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
4,204 posts, read 2,348,020 times
Reputation: 2358
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator11040 View Post
That "deal" not only was worthless, it was DANGEROUS. It was worse than worthless. That's why Obama failed to make it a treaty. The Senate rejected it with a strong bi-partisan majority. The American people rejected it, even though Obama LIED about its provisions.

That "deal" had critical flaws regarding when and where to inspect, sunset clauses which would allow the regime to enrich to the point of breakout, allow the regime to develop the most advanced centrifuges, and continue to test ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear war heads.
In addition it contained absolutely no restriction on Iranian expansion and hegemony. In fact, after the deal was signed the regime used the hundreds of $billions that it got as a result of the deal to increase its nefarious activities throughout the region, from Iraq to Syria to Lebanon to Yemen..
Here is a recommendation on how to correct some of those fatal flaws:
https://www.cotton.senate.gov/files/...Fact_Sheet.pdf

The economic pressure that President Trump has put on Iran left the regime with two options: agree to negotiations or launch military attacks. It has chosen the latter. From attacking and hijacking tankers in the Gulf to shooting down a US drone to the attack on SA to the attacks on Americans in Iraq to the storming of the embassy in Baghdad. All directed by Suleimani. They will continue to do so, and even intensify the attacks, until they are stopped. There need to be no invasion or war. What is needed is a pinpoint destruction of the regime's refinery and oil production facilities. That will put an end to their economy. Without an economy they will be unable to support any significant military action.

Meanwhile Zarif, the very cunning foreign minister, continually feeds the pro-Iranian choir with what they want to hear. THERE WILL BE ALL-OUT WAR! We want nothing but peace! And the American media give him a soap box. And no tough questions. That seems to be a prerequisite to an interview. Do the Iranian media interview Sec. Pompeo? Do they let him speak to the Iranians?

The American Left has to see national security and the Iran deal for what it is, and stop looking at the world always through an anti-Trump lens.
Hey, I appreciate your answer. Thank you, OP
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,897 posts, read 26,582,680 times
Reputation: 25793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
That was Iran's own money in return Iran would cooperate...

Rather than prodding a bull(war), we just kept it at bay. Trump decided that he wants to dance as a clown in the ring while slapping the bull...
Except-they never cooperated. Iran never dropped their nuclear program-the funding Obama provided accelerated it, as well as their funding and support for terrorists throughout the ME. Obama's "foreign policy" was a disaster, not just for America, but for nations across the ME as well.

And there never was a "deal". A treaty requires ratification by the senate-which never happened. Obama acted unilaterally to fund Iranian terrorism.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:30 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,527,931 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetosave View Post
If Iran was behaving, why go back on the deal?. I know it was a bad deal, but maybe President Trump should have waited before ending deal.
They weren't subject to "anytime, anywhere" inspections, so how would we know what they were doing in secret? It was a terrible deal that would NOT have gotten through Congress, had Obama actually sought their approval.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:34 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,708,698 times
Reputation: 14051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skezo View Post
Lets be real also. Iran has one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world. Nuclear power isnt near as cost efficient for them. It's just like North korea and how their nuclear power turnes into nuclear weapons.
I don't think a single person buys that they are doing it for power...although Energy is an important topic. If they end up being signatories to climate treaties they can use some nuke power (the Russians will gladly sell them entire plants)......

But, obviously, the program they are now working on is for weapons. I don't think it will take very long. Basic atomic weapons are easy-peasy. The hard part is getting the Uranium and enriching it. After that it can be made in a local machine shop...or possibly even a welding shop. Crude atomic weapons are simply a gun that shoots one piece of uranium down a tube (by use of an explosive behind it) to hit another piece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-type_fission_weapon

Russian has literally tons of atomic material (enriched) that disappeared when Ukraine gave up their nuke weapons (bad move by Ukraine.....)....and they could simply ship a couple dozen kilos to Iran through back channels. That's how we gave Israel nukes.

I'd say it could be done, at this point, in about 6 months.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:38 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,130,621 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy ol' Man View Post
Duck soup... They retaliate and they instantly disappear. No war, just instant destruction. POOF..! Gone..!
Ya, it's not that simple dude...
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:40 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,286 posts, read 87,533,280 times
Reputation: 55564
Israel said the agreement was not being followed and presented evidence
The evidence was confirmed before trump took office
Why do you ask such questions when the answers are in plain view
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:50 PM
exm
 
3,736 posts, read 1,794,586 times
Reputation: 2866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
I think we answered OP's question, but you DID NOT answer his follow up - exactly what did Iran do to break the deal? You stated that they did; please provide some evidence.

It was a bad deal to begin with. Inspectors weren't allowed in certain facilities, the sunset clause and the upfront removal of sanctions. So did Iran 'technically' not break the deal? Probably. But since the deal was so flawed, it's better to tear it up and create a real agreement. If Iran is serious about not producing nuclear weapons, it's easy for them to renegotiate.



I still don't understand why the Obama admin was so eager for a 'deal', and why they ever signed off on this one.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:51 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,708,698 times
Reputation: 14051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Except-they never cooperated. Iran never dropped their nuclear program-the funding Obama provided accelerated it, as well as their funding and support for terrorists throughout the ME. Obama's "foreign policy" was a disaster, not just for America, but for nations across the ME as well.

And there never was a "deal". A treaty requires ratification by the senate-which never happened. Obama acted unilaterally to fund Iranian terrorism.
There was a "deal" which included a number of very sober nations.

Perhaps you are referring to a "formal treaty", which differs from a deal or Executive Agreement???

The deal was made with the US, UK, France, China, Russia and Germany.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655

It's is an accord. The reason it is not a "treaty" as it was subject to verification and to all parties moving ahead as they promised.

I hope that helps explain the difference.

Perhaps a little history is in order:

"Executive Agreements

In addition to treaties, which may not enter into force and become binding on the United States without the advice and consent of the Senate, there are other types of international agreements concluded by the executive branch and not submitted to the Senate. These are classified in the United States as executive agreements, not as treaties, a distinction that has only domestic significance. International law regards each mode of international agreement as binding, whatever its designation under domestic law.

The challenge of obtaining a two-thirds vote on treaties was one of the motivating forces behind the vast increase in executive agreements after World War II. In 1952, for instance, the United States signed 14 treaties and 291 executive agreements.
Executive agreements continue to grow at a rapid rate."

Well, Toyman, it stands to reason that 100's, if not thousands, of such agreements have been signed since 1952.

And only the Black Man is Bad?
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:52 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,527,931 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
Israel said the agreement was not being followed and presented evidence
The evidence was confirmed before trump took office
Why do you ask such questions when the answers are in plain view
Obama pushed through his "deal" with loopholes galore - and he was quite aware of them.
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