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Old 07-23-2020, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,217 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14912

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Indeed- Bill Clinton did more damage to us than any foreign power.

The Chinese military advanced 30 years in technology through Clinton donors shunting hardware and technology and the shift of manufacturing has gutted the middle class and made China a goliath.

It is funny, but dems never acknowledge or accept all the damage Clinton did to the US and his role in creating what is the Chinese threat we face.

This is why we should not have grifters, like the Clintons, Biden, and Obama, in the White House, as they will sell anything that is not nailed down for personal gain.
If Nixon hadn't opened the door in 1972, this thread might not have even been necessary. Google "ping pong diplomacy" for details.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimApplebaum View Post
With all due respect, Tim Cook is full of sh**


First, Apple products don't require advanced tooling. Their products (phones, computers, etc) are most electronic assembly, which is automated. Lots of places in the U.S. do this, and do it very well. As for tooling - the enclosures for Apple products are pretty simple. And there really isn't such a things as "tooling engineer." That just makes him sound stupid.


The reason Apple manufactures in China is --- cost. Labor costs, whether they are engineers or assembly line workers, are much, much cheaper in China than in America. And that cost directly affects Apple's bottom line. Don't buy his nonsense you can't find the skills here in the U.S.

I've worked at companies that are doing some pretty advanced mechanical tooling. Much more complex than anything Apple needs for its products. And I've seen things shifting from mostly precision machining to what is now called "additive manufacturing." (This has gone through a lot of name changes over the years, and most of the public call it 3-D printing). Also, I've worked on electronics that are far more complex than an iPhone. But, this is mostly for the defense industry, so it won't be advertised to the public, and cost isn't as much of a prohibitive factor.
The costs don't come down to labor, but supply management. Take Samsung which had for a while in house manufacturing in their plants in Vietnam.

They are now shifting to ODMs in China which "can procure all the components needed for $100-$250 smartphones for 10% to 15% less than major brands with their own factories in China.

One supply chain source said Wingtech can get some parts for up to 30% less than Samsung Electronics pays in Vietnam, where it has three factories churning out smartphones, TVs and home appliances."


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...20costs%20more.

We do have a defense industry, but due to mergers and consolidation, China is also getting their hands in to our public technology works. Consumer electronics were monopolized by China from cornering the rare earth market, and localizing supply chains.

Its not a matter of moving to a cheap labor country, else wise everything would come from Bangladesh.

Our consumer market is so globalized countries all look to the same place for the same goods (specialization) and become ultra dependent on the welfare of that country. In the end the actual knowledge in the home country is lost.

Just like our aerospace knowledge is behind in many ways from where it was in 1969 or our knowledge of transistors in 1970.

People assume because of the internet it is only a matter of finance that get things done, but look at Boeing, they spend more for more shoddy products. We are a country of marketers more and more, who believe our financial power will save us from relying on one country for the majority of our consumption. It is a false joke.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:25 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
Brought to you by uniparty greed.
"Im not paying no American $8 bucks an hour when I can pay a slave worker $8 bucks a day in a Communist Country with no unions, no osha, no human rights and no pollution controls.

"Shareholders demand a return on their investments"
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:25 PM
 
9,229 posts, read 9,760,484 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Or you may find that they are paid starvation wages, locked in sweatshops, and beaten if they go to the restroom.
This is exactly the problem.
Anyone who has been to China can tell your statement is ridiculous and hilarious, but such a view is quite common in the US due to the media. US media, left or right, is extremely hostile to China.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:32 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
That it's all because of Clinton is pure BS, plain & simple.
Protesters in the 90s protested big against trade with China, I remember it well.
Those on the right, Big Business, The Chamber of Commerce, The Banking Community smeared these protesters as filthy commie liberals hating on free market capitalism for wanting to stop trade with commie China.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Protesters in the 90s protested big against trade with China, I remember it well.
Those on the right, Big Business, The Chamber of Commerce, The Banking Community smeared these protesters as filthy commie liberals hating on free market capitalism for wanting to stop trade with commie China.
Its funny how much 'conservatives' in this country hate family traditions, small communities, and wealth hierarchies that are destroyed by globalism, off-shoring, and mass consumerism.

I'm not conservatives but real conservatives like Henry Clay are rolling in their graves at the sight of Hayek, Milton Friedman, Rush Limbaugh, the Koch bros., Bush, CATO, the Heritage Foundation, Ben Shapiro, Reagan, the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Fox News, the National Review, Goldwater, Romney, Steven Crowder, or Bill Kristol.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:52 PM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,629,144 times
Reputation: 12560
Trump and his daughter do mostly business in China. Trump is a big talking hypocrite and this is his way of looking tough when he used to look away.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Fiorina "Fury" 161
3,531 posts, read 3,734,097 times
Reputation: 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Protesters in the 90s protested big against trade with China, I remember it well.
Those on the right, Big Business, The Chamber of Commerce, The Banking Community smeared these protesters as filthy commie liberals hating on free market capitalism for wanting to stop trade with commie China.
That was also the time before crony bailout capitalism. The rules were they take the losses just like any other business. Now that the rules have changed, it's up to consumers to choose whether they want to continue to feed the monster by buying the convenience and products the mega corps are selling.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:57 PM
 
3,771 posts, read 1,524,502 times
Reputation: 2213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
This is exactly the problem.
Anyone who has been to China can tell your statement is ridiculous and hilarious, but such a view is quite common in the US due to the media. US media, left or right, is extremely hostile to China.
well, at least that's one thing that unites us.
the enemy of my enemy...
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Old 07-23-2020, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free-R View Post
That was also the time before crony bailout capitalism. The rules were they take the losses just like any other business. Now that the rules have changed, it's up to consumers to choose whether they want to continue to feed the monster by buying the convenience and products the mega corps are selling.
really its not 'crony' capitalism, that assume government subsidies.

Today angel investors in silicon valley purposeful fund ventures that lose money to corner a market and control where distributors buy their goods and through what venues they are sold. Look at franchise laws and ghost kitchens.

Its not about equal competition, its about Amazon or Uber lowering prices in a global market place to guarantee control over the distribution chain. Supply chains are also wrapped around China because private investors want the cheapest utilities and production of scale.

Sure the government promotes this behavior by favoring franchise owners, equity investors, and IP laws, but it is all done under the rules of the free market.

Wall Street without bailouts is the free market, as are private equity firms that liquidize local industries for cheap buy-outs as are angel investors in Silicon Valley who promote money losing models that destroy competition.

This all comes from the ideas of Friedman, Hayek, and the rest. And it all has destroyed traditional family values for mass consumerism.
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