Tennessee school rejects cancel culture, votes to keep "confederate linked" mascot and song (wisdom, crime)
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Gee, thanks for making my point for me. Do you really think any of that is taught in a high school history class (if they even have that class anymore)? Ask a kid out of high school (I have, because I see lots of them daily) about what the civil war was about and you will get a blanket answer that could have come from a Stephen King novel. The bad guy and the good guy. No middle ground. And no uninvolved.
The facts clearly state that slavery was the major goal of the Confederate cause. Documents show that. People living back then said it. As a Black man, the Confederates are the bad guys.
That is basically how I see the Confederate flag. I did live in South Carolina for part of my life as a child. I didn't know anything about the Confederate flag in front of the State Capitol until 2015. However, it doesn't surprise me. It was the first state to secede from the Union.
I've noticed that alot of Neo-Nazis love the Confederate flag. The KKK loves it too. The Confederate flags were brought out during the 1950s and 60s too, in protest against integration. There was a spike in schools named for Robert E. Lee and other Confederate generals in the 50s and 60s. It makes me wonder if named those schools after Confederate generals was done as a middle finger to school integration.
Of course they were. In 1965, my grandmother ( the one married to the klansman) called a meeting of local business people and organized a private school here in Columbia, Hammond Academy, as a response to Civil Rights legislation and integration. It opened its doors in 1966, on land that was once part of Wade Hampton's plantation (the one that Sherman went out of his way to burn). The school was named for James Henry Hammond, an outspoken slave owner, and dedicated to the proposition that white children should never have to attend school with the children of animals.
Hey, I'm not wanting to force anyone to do ANYTHING.
What I'm suggesting is, that we stop forcing bigots to hide who they are.
But I'm not into forcing bigots into flying the Confederate Flag.
I just appreciate when vicious dogs give you plenty of warning they're likely to attack.
Most bigots don’t and would never fly a confederate flag. Most of the violence associated with anything confederate is by those that attack those that would display anything confederate. They are the true bigots.
Look at the fine examples of those rioters tearing down both confederate and non-confederate monuments, statues, flags. No comparison to those that would fly that flag. Total lack of tolerance or respect for law. Violent trash.
Most recently Roosevelt and Lincoln statues. Anything associated with white history is a target.
The facts clearly state that slavery was the major goal of the Confederate cause. Documents show that. People living back then said it. As a Black man, the Confederates are the bad guys.
You clearly think differently than I do. What I get from your philosophy would be similar to me saying something like this: the facts clearly state that taking over the world and killing the Jews was a major goal of the German cause. Documents show that. PEOPLE living then said it. As an American man, the Germans are the bad guys.
I'm assuming you are a supporter of the WWII Japanese internment camps as well. After all the Japanese goal was to attack the US (which they, of course, did).
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Coddling Confederate sympathizers was an egregious mistake. It is still being felt today. The Confederates should have been treated the way anyone treats traitors.
They were. Read the history of Sherman's foray into the deep south. You can also read of the actions of the Kansas Jayhawkers. You would probably enjoy the nature of their activities.
You clearly think differently than I do. What I get from your philosophy would be similar to me saying something like this: the facts clearly state that taking over the world and killing the Jews was a major goal of the German cause. Documents show that. PEOPLE living then said it. As an American man, the Germans are the bad guys.
I'm assuming you are a supporter of the WWII Japanese internment camps as well. After all the Japanese goal was to attack the US (which they, of course, did).
Eh?
People who today glorify the German state of the late 1930's and the American internment policy of the 1940's, or the Japanese attempts at eastern hegemony resulting in millions of deaths throughout that region, all of which were objectively bad, are also the bad guys. Or fools.
The people who glorify past sedition and open warfare on the United States to attempt to preserve an economic and social system based on the enslavement of and forced labor from human beings, today, are the bad guys. Are they as bad as the original actors? No. Could some of them instead be evaluated as having a lack of critical thinking skills or just suffering from herd mentality, rather than evil segregationist and racist mindsets? Sure.
Makes me wish a crowdfunding campaign could get started to erect a massive statue of Sherman across the street from the school, maybe him standing atop smoldering ruins pointing a saber in their direction with a scowl on his face.
People who today glorify the German state of the late 1930's and the American internment policy of the 1940's, or the Japanese attempts at eastern hegemony resulting in millions of deaths throughout that region, all of which were objectively bad, are also the bad guys. Or fools.
The people who glorify past sedition and open warfare on the United States to attempt to preserve an economic and social system based on the enslavement of and forced labor from human beings, today, are the bad guys. Are they as bad as the original actors? No. Could some of them instead be evaluated as having a lack of critical thinking skills or just suffering from herd mentality, rather than evil segregationist and racist mindsets? Sure.
The point went right over your head.
Who were "the confederates"? Presumably, they were every last soul who lived in the states that formed the CSA. Of those people, what percentage were slave owners? And what percentage were as poor as church mice and spending sixteen hours a day every day busting sod? Do you think they were all caught up in the political wrangling of the elites and slave owners? Or were they just trying to stay alive in the deep south after their world presumably went to hell. When they saw Lee's army and the Federal army clashing in their corn fields, who the hell do you think they were going to fight for when they were forced to choose a side? Are they going to fight with a bunch of "invaders" from Massachusetts or for the people all around them who were arming themselves to ward off the "invaders."
It's just like every other war. Yeah, there was a just cause and an unjust cause. But it is generally the little pissants that end up dying for "the cause."
So once again, I don't call the seventeen year old dirt poor southern boy who had not a thing to do with slavery or the mechanisms that started that war who ended up being a "confederate" the bad guy. Just like I don't call the seventeen year old German who ended up fighting in the Wehrmacht the bad guy. Actually, I call them victims.
Too many people paint with way too wide of a brush. You blame an entire populace for the actions and decisions of only a small percentage--those in charge. If every person living in the south was a slave owner and believed wholeheartedly in slavery, then I'd agree with the OP's argument. But that was clearly not the case. There were many other reasons the teenage southern boy picked up a musket for the CSA. He was a confederate, but he wasn't necessarily the devil the OP makes him out to be.
All I can say is that if my own state broke away from the union, I sure as hell would not stand by the union. IMO, most of the nation at this point may as well be foreign territory. I feel no kinship whatsoever with the east or west coasts. I haven't even been out of my state for at least ten years. As far as I'm concerned, the fifty states could all just become fifty sovereign nations. So, I understand how Lee felt, slavery or not.
What if your state did it because they wanted to bring back child labor and strip women of the right to vote? Would you fight and die for that?
Oh absolutely. Atlanta and its suburbs are like another country. I don't care for them much, I may visit to shop there but I leave as soon as I can, and I always carried when I went there, just didn't feel safe.
I guess people who live there better carry a bigger gun than you, and your neurotic finger connected to your very reasonable patriotic mind.
Who were "the confederates"? Presumably, they were every last soul who lived in the states that formed the CSA. Of those people, what percentage were slave owners? And what percentage were as poor as church mice and spending sixteen hours a day every day busting sod? Do you think they were all caught up in the political wrangling of the elites and slave owners? Or were they just trying to stay alive in the deep south after their world presumably went to hell. When they saw Lee's army and the Federal army clashing in their corn fields, who the hell do you think they were going to fight for when they were forced to choose a side? Are they going to fight with a bunch of "invaders" from Massachusetts or for the people all around them who were arming themselves to ward off the "invaders."
It's just like every other war. Yeah, there was a just cause and an unjust cause. But it is generally the little pissants that end up dying for "the cause."
So once again, I don't call the seventeen year old dirt poor southern boy who had not a thing to do with slavery or the mechanisms that started that war who ended up being a "confederate" the bad guy. Just like I don't call the seventeen year old German who ended up fighting in the Wehrmacht the bad guy. Actually, I call them victims.
Too many people paint with way too wide of a brush. You blame an entire populace for the actions and decisions of only a small percentage--those in charge. If every person living in the south was a slave owner and believed wholeheartedly in slavery, then I'd agree with the OP's argument. But that was clearly not the case. There were many other reasons the teenage southern boy picked up a musket for the CSA. He was a confederate, but he wasn't necessarily the devil the OP makes him out to be.
OK, but it's about the cause, not the pissants' sacrifice for it. The schools, the monuments and the flags are not glorifying the sacrifice of the foolish pissants who took up arms for an ideal of community, neighbor, and "'ole Miss", they tend to glorify the leaders and the government which enabled said "cause."
And if those teenagers and other geniuses flying the flag NOW and arguing to keep Nathan Bedford Forrest monuments on the junior high school lawn at board meetings NOW can't understand that, then our education system is certainly failing.
But yes it's complicated
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