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As an anesthesiologist, I have seen how high doses of Fentanyl (administered intentionally with induction of anesthesia) affects level of consciousness and breathing. As such, I am in total agreement with you post here.
I have also found in life that too many people will believe that what they want to believe for whatever underlying motive they have to support that what they want to be their truth.
I had a young and wild friend who overdosed on prescription narcotics a few years ago, and she ended up in the intensive care unit with a breathing tube on a breathing machine until the narcotic (opioid) “metabolized” enough from her system so that she would be more awake and breathe on her own. The toxicity from an opioid overdose led her to have depressed mentation, and basically not initiating any of her own breathing so a machine had to breathe for her. She was not running around telling folks “I can’t breathe”.
I also learned that fentanyl is one of the drugs they use in the ICU to make people tolerate having a breathing tube better: it treats pain and it makes them very sleepy. People who get the breathing machine because of their breathing difficulties will get fentanyl for pain and sedation, so they don’t run around like George Floyd screaming I can’t breathe or the tube is hurting my throat and makes me want to gag.
I also learned from my friend’s grandmother, who ended up in hospice, that opioids like morphine and fentanyl are used to treat pain and air hunger during the last stages of dying, so that they don’t run around screaming I can’t breathe as George Floyd did.
The non-clinical and clinical effects of opioid use are so well-documented. Are Chauvin apologists just denying reality to satisfy their need to be contrarian? Or do they enjoy being comically obtuse and uninformed? I admit, these two options are not mutually exclusive.
From the trial:
Dr. Martin Tobin testified that he was aware that George Floyd had preexisting conditions as mentioned in his autopsy and medical records.
"Do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether a person who had none of those preexisting conditions, a healthy person, would have died under the same circumstances as Mr. Floyd?" prosecutor Jerry Blackwell asked him.
"Yes. A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," Tobin said.
My note: the obstruction of lung activity: oxygen/ expulsion and pressure.
The lung and heart play a dual duty.
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AFTER GEORGE FLOYD
Live Blog / Derek Chauvin trial: Live updates on George Floyd's death
Derek Chauvin is on trial for murder in George Floyd's death. Get live updates and news and watch the trial livestream as witnesses testify.
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Watch live: Coverage of Derek Chauvin's trial in George Floyd's death
Updated April 8, 2021, 1:28 PM EDT
Testimony on Wednesday in Derek Chauvin's murder trial in the death of George Floyd included several use-of-force experts for the prosecution as well as forensic scientists who collected, photographed and tested evidence found at the scene.
Several Minneapolis police officials concluded that Chauvin's actions were not part of the trained use of force, an apparent sign that the "blue wall of silence" is crumbling.
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Daniella Silva
50m ago / 1:28 PM EDT
Pulmonologist casts doubt on role of fentanyl in Floyd's lack of oxygen
Dr. Martin Tobin, a renowned expert on breathing, testified Thursday that George Floyd’s respiratory rate was normal before he lost consciousness and fentanyl “was not having an effect” on his respiratory centers based on his rate of breathing.
Tobin said while Floyd was restrained on the ground he was still experiencing a normal respiratory rate of 22. He said if fentanyl were causing a depression of his respiratory centers, one would expect a 40 percent reduction in his respiratory rate.
He said if Floyd’s respiratory rate was 22, then one would expect a respiratory rate of 10 if fentanyl was having an effect.
Tobin agreed with prosecutor Jerry Blackwell that he did not see a depressed rate of breathing in Floyd and that his respiratory rate was normal just before he lost consciousness.
The defense has argued that fentanyl, which was found in Floyd's system at the time of his death, and other drugs can lead to insufficient oxygen in the body as part of the defense argument that Chauvin was not the cause of Floyd's death.
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Daniella Silva
1h ago / 1:10 PM EDT
Pulmonologist: 'Very dangerous' and 'misleading' to think 'if you can speak, you can breathe'
Dr. Martin Tobin, a renowned pulmonary expert, testified Thursday that the idea of “if you can speak, you can breathe” is both “very dangerous” and “highly misleading.”
Tobin said even though such a statement was technically true in the sense that when a person speaks, they are exhaling, it also gives “an enormous false sense of security.”
“Certainly at the moment that you are speaking, you are breathing, but it doesn't tell you that you're going to be breathing, five seconds later,” he said.
Tobin added that at the time Floyd was restrained on the ground and telling officers he could not breathe he still had oxygen in his brain.
“And again, it's a perfect example of how it gives you a huge false sense of security because very shortly after that we're going to see that he has a major loss of oxygen in the way that he moves his leg,” he added.
Tobin said this showed how dangerous the concept of “if you can speak, you can breathe,” actually was.
“Yes, that is true on the surface, but highly misleading. A very, very dangerous mantra to have out there,” he said.
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Janelle Griffith
1h ago / 12:49 PM EDT
Dr. Martin Tobin: 'A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died.'
Dr. Martin Tobin testified that he was aware that George Floyd had preexisting conditions as mentioned in his autopsy and medical records.
"Do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether a person who had none of those preexisting conditions, a healthy person, would have died under the same circumstances as Mr. Floyd?" prosecutor Jerry Blackwell asked him.
"Yes. A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," Tobin said.
My note: the obstruction of lung activity: oxygen/ expulsion and pressure.
The lung and heart play a dual duty.
Chauvin will be going to jail. I didn't see all of it but he did explain things so that we could understand what he said.
Civil society? What civil society? Where do you think you are living? Is it Tokyo or Singapore? They have civil societies. Honk Kong also until you ACLU types went there to transform that place into one of America's burning cities. You dump on others like Chauvin just so you can look civilized. Self-hate is one thing. Hating yourself by flogging an effigy in the form of Chauvin is sick.
Dr. Tobin just said anybody would have died, previous health problems or not.
Stick a folk in Chauvin. He's done now.
Edit.
Wait for it. Right wingers will start attacking Dr. Tobin's beard.
People have been put into that same hold for prolonged periods and not died. It's not going to be hard for the defense to find a video of someone surviving just fine in that hold. The way Dr. Tobin describes we should have a lot of people dead from ashiatsu massages alone.
The MPD police chief and one of the prosecution's witnesses said it looked as if Chauvin's knee was actually on Floyd's shoulder rather than his neck from the body camera footage. Kind of goes against the blood choke case the prosecution was pushing earlier in the trial.
The defense will also have their own pulmonary expert that says someone healthy would be just fine in that hold. Some of you guys are trying to fool yourself into thinking this is a slam dunk case for the prosecution. I think you're going to get a little shock when the results come back.
People have been put into that same hold for prolonged periods and not died. It's not going to be hard for the defense to find a video of someone surviving just fine in that hold. The way Dr. Tobin describes we should have a lot of people dead from ashiatsu massages alone.
The MPD police chief and one of the prosecution's witnesses said it looked as if Chauvin's knee was actually on Floyd's shoulder rather than his neck from the body camera footage. Kind of goes against the blood choke case the prosecution was pushing earlier in the trial.
The defense will also have their own pulmonary expert that says someone healthy would be just fine in that hold. Some of you guys are trying to fool yourself into thinking this is a slam dunk case for the prosecution. I think you're going to get a little shock when the results come back.
Yes; and after they get that little shock, we will be bracing ourselves for a bigger shock when they go overboard with their rampaging.
People have been put into that same hold for prolonged periods and not died. It's not going to be hard for the defense to find a video of someone surviving just fine in that hold. The way Dr. Tobin describes we should have a lot of people dead from ashiatsu massages alone.
The MPD police chief and one of the prosecution's witnesses said it looked as if Chauvin's knee was actually on Floyd's shoulder rather than his neck from the body camera footage. Kind of goes against the blood choke case the prosecution was pushing earlier in the trial.
The defense will also have their own pulmonary expert that says someone healthy would be just fine in that hold. Some of you guys are trying to fool yourself into thinking this is a slam dunk case for the prosecution. I think you're going to get a little shock when the results come back.
1. One of the main tenets of their defense, that George Floyd died from fentanyl overdose, is not going to be supported by any medical expert called to the stand based on video evidence.
2. It does not matter if some people can survive a restraint like that, particularly after going unconscious. All we need to know is that a restraint like that can and does lead to death in many circumstances, that it is department policy to put the restrained individual in recovery position, that none of the care that Floyd needed occurred, and that Floyd in fact died on camera while in this restraint.
I hope this helps.
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