Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's a rather wild extrapolation where the complete destruction of reproductive capability is equated with circumcision.
I actually know someone that thought they wanted to go that route when they were young (12-13) but ended up CIS. I support LGBT, I just feel that the person should be older before taking what is essentially a one-way ticket.
I tend to agree. (but that doesn't matter). I just don't think it's the states job to make that decision. It's certainly not my job, I don't know if it's irreversible or not, because I don't know what treatment a doctor has recommended privately to their own patient, nor why.
It's not a wild extrapolation to compare circumcision at all. If it was not a widely acceptable cultural practice, the act of irreversibly cutting off a piece of a baby's penis would be considered barbaric and would also be banned by the state. But we leave it up to the parents to make that erm... "medical" decision for their own child. Why that's appropriate and why gender affirming treatment isn't is merely a matter of cultural conditioning, in my opinion.
The govt. makes lots of decisions for kids they don't know.
Age to marry, get a license, drink, see R movies, be tried as adults, drafted, buy a gun or cigarettes and so forth.
The severity and permanence of a decision needs to be carefully weighted against their ability to make a personal choice.
That's the entire rub of the issue.
Juveniles can't even enter legal contracts for a reason.
Medical decisions are not comparable to cigarettes or guns. Doctors and their patients make decisions for reasons that are not available to anyone else to scrutinise and adjudicate whether they're appropriate or not.
For the love of god are you really using this as an argument that validates the state making medical decisions for kids they don't know??
What do you mean that Steinbeck didn't write it that way? Please explain because I quoted it exactly as he wrote it, so I truly have no idea what you are saying.
MY point -- which should be obvious -- is that while it might be true that many kids wish they were of the opposite sex when they are very young, I think it is also true that most of these kids change their minds later on.
P.S. And, btw, states make medical decisions for people they don't know in case after case involving minors. For example, the rules regarding abortions vary from state to state, and I can assure you that these decisions are made without interviewing or reviewing the cases of the people involved.
Last edited by katharsis; 04-07-2021 at 07:27 PM..
What do you mean that Steinbeck didn't write it that way? Please explain because I quoted it exactly as he wrote it, so I truly have no idea what you are saying.
MY point -- which should be obvious -- is that while it might be true that many kids wish they were of the opposite sex when they are very young, I think it is also true that most of these kids change their minds later on.
P.S. And, btw, states make medical decisions for people they don't know in case after case involving minors. For example, the rules regarding abortions vary from state to state, and I can assure you that these decisions are made without interviewing or reviewing the cases of the people involved.
Yes that's true. And I think the state should stay out of that too.
Kids may or may not change their minds, but that is no reason for the legislature to come between a person and their medical advice.
As to your first question, I think I read your post incorrectly, so apologies there.
This discussion reminds me of a passage in one of my favorite books, East of Eden, by John Steinbeck. Although a work of fiction, parts of it featured anecdotes in Steinbeck's own family. Here is one such passage that featured his real sister, Mary. (I snipped a lot so as not to make this excerpt 500 words or so longer.)
[START EXCERPT, my italics]
My sister Mary did not want to be a girl. It was a misfortune she could not get used to. She was an athlete, a marble player, a pitcher of one-o'-cat, and the trappings of a girl inhibited her. Of course, this was long before the compensations of being a girl were apparent to her.
Just as we knew that somewhere on our bodies, probably under the arm, there was a button which if pressed just right would permit us to fly, so Mary had worked out a magic for herself to change her over into the tough little boy she wanted to be. If she went to sleep in a magical position, knees crooked just right, head at a magical angle, fingers all crossed one over the other, in the morning, she would be a boy. Every night she tried to find exactly the right combination, but she never could. [snip]
"Of course." [Mary said] "Uncle Tom [snip] will know how to get to be a boy." There it was, as simple as that. I wondered why I hadn't thought of it myself.
[snip]
"Uncle Tom, how do you get to be a boy?"
"Why, Mary, you're just born a boy." [snip]
Her words poured out. "I don't want to be a girl, Uncle Tom. I want to be a boy. A girl's all kissing and dolls. I don't want to be a girl. I don't want to." Tears of anger welled up in Mary's eyes.
[snip]
"I don't think you really want to change,"
"I do."
Tom was wrong. She really did want to change. [END EXCERPT]
Mary went on to marry and have at least one child, and I have found nothing to indicate that she felt forced into marriage or motherhood.
But if Mary had been born to woke parents today, they almost certainly would not have doubted for a moment that Mary really was a girl trapped in a boy's body and off to the therapists they would go -- and if Mary did manage to convince the psychologist that YES, she really, really, really wanted to be a boy, how many of you think her parents and her therapist(s) would have all said to Mary, "Yes, I am sure you hate being a girl now, but let's just wait ten years and see how you feel then?"
If I had to choose between woke parents, and the conservative parents who kick trans kids out of their homes, I'd have to choose the woke parents. Y'all on the right like to talk about the suicide rate among trans youts, you think this could be one of the reasons why?
Interesting. I thought people were against the intervention of the state in people’s medical decisions. Especially when it comes to what parents think is the right treatment for their own minor children.
It’s ok when the state intervenes in something you disagree with, apparently.
Therefore you won’t object when they ban parents from circumcising their babies, a procedure causing irreversible and permanent damage. If minors are not allowed gender treatment, regardless of their parents’ views, then circumcision cannot stand as a state sanctioned practice.
The GOP is all over the map as to what is personal freedom and what the government should force people to comply with.
I am a Libertarian. I am fine with the legal guardians deciding what is best for their kids. Not the state. I don't believe many parents would push their kids to be trans who don't want it.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 04-07-2021 at 08:39 PM..
If I had to choose between woke parents, and the conservative parents who kick trans kids out of their homes, I'd have to choose the woke parents. Y'all on the right like to talk about the suicide rate among trans youts, you think this could be one of the reasons why?
Howard Stern had a caller yesterday. Their kid was trans. They asked for hormone theory. I believe they are 13. Their governor wants to make that illegal. And the parents as well as the doctor could then be put in jail.
I agree good for them. How low have we as a nation sunk when we are providing kids such terrible life altering surgeries?
Why can't people just let kids be kids?
Kids are more confused today then ever. They are being constantly bombarded with doom and gloom, uncertain futures, drugs, mixed messages, Covid, racism is everywhere, wokeism and social justice is defying common sense and now they have to deal with the possibility that they were born the wrong sex!
I think 18 is still too young to be making such a life altering decision but allowing children to pursue hormone treatments and sex changes is child endangerment.
It's about some kids being kids by not already in life being happy with the sex they were born with. So is there plenty of evidence to prove there is a serious problem with that so early in life? Are there plenty of testimonies of transsexual adults wishing they never went through surgery and warning kids not to go through with it?
Good. Up til a few months ago, I had thought this wasn't being done on children. It was shocking to see that yes, it's fairly common.
History won't look back on this movement, to allow children to alter their sexual maturation, kindly.
I could be persuaded if there are numerous adult transsexuals who wish they never went through any surgery or hormone treatment and are warning others not to do it. If I was a guy who wanted to be female but was sexually attracted to females, I don't know if I would be any happier with the world after transitioning. Is it easy to find happiness as a male lesbian? I don't know.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
