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Except that "separation of church and state" exists nowhere in the US Constitution.
So Thomas Jefferson, one of the writers, did not know what he was doing or saying!
""Separation of church and state" is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
The principle is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson's "separation between Church & State." It has been used to express the understandings of the intent and function of this amendment, which allows freedom of religion. It is generally traced to a January 1, 1802, letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper.
Jefferson wrote,
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."[1]
When they [the Church] have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the Candlestick, etc., and made His Garden a wilderness as it is this day. And that therefore if He will ever please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world, and all that be saved out of the world are to be transplanted out of the wilderness of the World.[2]"
I think things have gotten completely out of control. We should have had regular constitutional conventions where things were amended and changed. It wasn't meant to be like the 10 commandments.
"It wasn't meant to be like the 10 commandments", Nothing like wild exaggerations.
"We should have had regular constitutional conventions"
Amendments can be brought up ANY TIME.
If there is something you want to change, NO ONE is STOPPING you. Use the LEGAL RECOGNIZED process, NOT the courts.
It sometimes feels that people view the framers as all knowing and almost god like beings. They knew the future and attended to happenings of 200 years hence with their pronouncements. Sure a lot of it is great stuff, but seriously, treating them as though they are carved in stone commandments is a religious position.
If they were godlike beings there would be no amendment process. They were men. Perhaps greater men than the current generation is capable of producing, which may or may not be true of preceding and succeeding generations. Amending the Constitution is possible but difficult. Difficult enough that we should be able to stop this current dogmatically corrupt generation from accomplishing it.
Disingenuous argument. Privateers had cannon and warships. They no longer exist. Mainly because military and law enforcement are well armed and plentiful.
Disingenuous argument. Privateers had cannon and warships. They no longer exist. Mainly because military and law enforcement are well armed and plentiful.
The power of the American People remain.
Members of the military and Law Enforcement also constitute the People.
Yes, but the liberal doctrine is, if the gun wasn't there, people wouldn't be shot and killed.
True, they wouldn't be shot, but another weapon would soon take it's place.
There is no way in this world to stop people from killing one another.
If you manage to live without being taken out, that is the luck of the draw.
More are killed via cars then guns. We never hear about banning cars.
So the question is, do they REALLY care about deaths? Or only gun related deaths?
It sometimes feels that people view the framers as all knowing and almost god like beings. They knew the future and attended to happenings of 200 years hence with their pronouncements. Sure a lot of it is great stuff, but seriously, treating them as though they are carved in stone commandments is a religious position.
Two comments on this.
First, nobody views them as "god like beings." That's YOUR language. It's a subconscious (or conscious?) attempt to discredit what people think and believe, so you don't have to consider what they're saying.
People revere them because they crafted the most brilliant political document in the history of the world. They were extremely well learned about philosophy and human nature. They stood up to the most powerful military in the world at the time and created a system of governance that didn't concentrate power into the hands of a few.
Those things are huge, and if you can't understand the significance of them, that's your own problem. Denigrating people who do understand only serves to demonstrate your ignorance.
Second, they didn't "know the future," and nobody has ever claimed otherwise. Again, you're discrediting them to yourself only, so you don't have to deal with the truth.
What they did was devise a system based on principles, not power. They understood much better than you do that societies change over time, and they included a process by which the government structure could be modified, as necessary, to address those changes, without disturbing the underlying principles.
What the Left wants to do is discard the principles our country was founded on - individual liberty being foremost among them - and "fundamentally transform" the United States of America.
So Thomas Jefferson, one of the writers, did not know what he was doing or saying!
""Separation of church and state" is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
The principle is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson's "separation between Church & State." It has been used to express the understandings of the intent and function of this amendment, which allows freedom of religion. It is generally traced to a January 1, 1802, letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper.
Jefferson wrote,
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."[1]
When they [the Church] have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the Candlestick, etc., and made His Garden a wilderness as it is this day. And that therefore if He will ever please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world, and all that be saved out of the world are to be transplanted out of the wilderness of the World.[2]"
And when Adams said that our form of government was suitable only to a moral and religious people? How do you reconcile your position on church & state with that?
Jefferson's statement is in the same spirit as the language in the 1st Amendment. "Congress shall make no law..." It's not the government's job to dictate what you can and can't believe. Wall.
Disingenuous argument. Privateers had cannon and warships. They no longer exist. Mainly because military and law enforcement are well armed and plentiful.
"Disingenuous argument", right back at you.
President Thomas Jefferson even CONTRACTED for the use of those warships.
Private citizens did, and STILL do own cannons.
IF the Founding Fathers wanted them BANNED, they would have said so in the discussions of the 2nd amendment and included them in the amendment.
The FACT they did NOT EXCLUDE ANY says it all.
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