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While I sympathize with your situation and what has happened, all many are asking is the same in return.
To many, getting a vaccine that doesn't actually prevent COVID, has only been around for a few months with no long-term studies is not a "small" thing. Nothing that says if you want to get it you can't, but don't "shame" people into getting it if they have what are legitimate reservations..even if you don't agree.
My point was that vaccines are the only way we end this, short of some miracle cure. I thought for a while the vaccine was pretty close to a miracle cure. Turns out it's more like a powerful flu shot. That's better than nothing but it is highly disappointing.
How else is this ever supposed to end? What other tools do we have?
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However, putting your friend's death and suicide on the people that have not gotten the vaccine is also not only unfair, but it is also likely inaccurate. There is no proof if your friend got it from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person if the vaccine was even available when they died.
They both died toward the end of 2020, before the vaccine was widely distributed. I wasn't putting it on anybody. My point was, for their sake I want this to be OVER, and I don't see any other means besides vaccines. To play this out until it becomes livable is going to take years more, probably at least 2. Maybe more.
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But if you think that COVID is the worst possible disease you really need to take a step back. COVID has a very high survivability rate. I am not sure where you are getting your statistics but I also hear the statements like yours that say there are huge percentages of people suffering life-long disabling side-effects from COVID. Yet every time I have asked I have never had anyone provide any statistics. The most I ever seem to get is a story or two from some MSM story about some person that they see as proof. If you have any legitimate studies on long-term severe disabilities due to COVID I would be glad to see them.
It's worst in the sense that it's bad enough to bad, but not bad enough to touch everyone. I don't have those stats on hand, but I assume that there is a pattern of long haul moderate > long haul severe > permanent damage > death.
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If 20% of the people that got COVID were dying, yes it would be a totally different discussion. Many would see the risk of the vaccine less than COVID and go with getting the vaccine and we would probably be at 85-90% vaccinated, but that is not where we are at. It will get better, in another 1-2 years COVID will be more "normalized" to something very close to the flu. The problem is that many in Government think that we can "mandate" and "Vaccinate" our way out of a pandemic sooner...which is just not going to happen.
So what IS going to happen? Nothing? We never get out of this? People were saying if we only went the herd immunity route it would become like the flu in 6 months, then a year, then a year and a half. The hospital systems won't last like this. The nurses are quitting like crazy at my local one, generally because of burnout.
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As for the rest, there are extremes on both sides. However, with COVID this has been politicized to the point where the President of the United States is dividing and driving that wedge even further instead of uniting the people of the US. I am by far no fan of Biden, but there are so many other ways his speech could have gone that would have been better for unifying, but that doesn't meet their current agenda.
What WOULD be unifying at this point?
I made the point about my workplace because we're in a small version of the national conversation. I'd estimate between 65-75% of the workforce are vaccinated and in favor of mandating vaccines, about 25-35% are not. The fights between them are making everything hell because in both cases they are talking about "death" and/or "my body." Administration has tried to split the middle by mandating vaccines for SOME circumstances, basically the people in high contact positions, but not all. That satisfied no one. People in both camps are threatening to quit, sue, etc... I've never seen it like this. Splitting the middle didn't help. It only made things worse.
Last edited by redguard57; 09-15-2021 at 04:29 PM..
How repulsively selfish of you to suggest forcing others to get the vaccine so that you can "feel" safe and enjoy having fun again. Such a small thing to make the world (in your eyes) slightly better can perhaps have lasting impacts on people, if not now perhaps in the future. Why is that ok?
I am sorry for the loss of your friends but I also work with people who has had family members die from Covid and they still dont feel that it should be mandated because everyone has their reason for or not getting it. Doing ones part by getting the vaccine also entails ensuring they dont spread it and to get regular testing, perhaps even remain social distanced and wear a mask for added security...not that sounds like a life not worth living to me.
We have not made the world suck, politics have made the world suck. The media has made the world suck. We need to be independent thinkers and stop relying on others for misinformation as fact.
Yeah, I kind of do want life to be worth living again. That would be better for... well everyone. Not just me. I don't see how covid lasting ever longer and longer is good for anyone. It needs to be dealt with, as fast as possible. Instead we are dragging it out, seemingly doing everything in our power to NOT fix it.
Yeah, I kind of do want life to be worth living again. That would be better for... well everyone. Not just me. I don't see how covid lasting ever longer and longer is good for anyone. It needs to be dealt with, as fast as possible. Instead we are dragging it out, seemingly doing everything in our power to NOT fix it.
Then live. And let your congresscritter know that their re-election could be in play if they don't do everything in their power to put a stop to this madness. No government can 'deal with' a virus that jumps from a person to their cat to their neighbor's dog to its owner then to their Uber driver then a wild elephant. Government's sole focus this entire time should have been to develop treatments and ramp up hospital capacity. Instead we have a vaccine that doesn't stop spread and a broken economy and a massive shortage of everything.
Okay, I'll bite. What do you all think it would be like with a hypothetical 100% vaccination rate, lets even say age 0 and up are approved for vaccines? Do any of you really think Covid will ever be "over"? I keep reading all these comments about how we need to "end" Covid and "It needs to be dealt with". Humans think we are the center of the universe and can control everything but nature will win out, we aren't going to "get this under control". We have to figure out a compromise in which we learn to live with it (and each other).
What's the end game? It seems most on here just want to get on with life and live with it for the most part, but I'm curious what the rest think Covid being "over" looks like? Is there some set of metrics by which you are then okay with the world moving on to 100% normal activity, and you'll feel safe going out and about similar to how you did prior to 2020 again?
If the end game is 100% vaccination, and we'll then just accept the worst of it at that point, then that's great. However, this seems like we're still in the early stages of what will be a never ending "and then" loop to appeal to those either consumed by fear or lacking an understanding of statistics.
I think the harsh reality is that Covid is going to be with us forever in some form, and those with underlying conditions are going to have this extra risk in life to deal with, FOREVER. It'll also kill of a small percentage of those in good health as well, FOREVER. There is no herd immunity to this one, just like there isn't for the cold and flu. Can you accept that, is that answer good enough? Because that's the best 100% vaccination gets us, at which point our best route is therapeutics and/or the virus weakening over time.
You said that you have made little to no changes to your life in response to covid, and have not contracted it or at least not gotten sick. Therefore you are "walking talking proof" of immunity. You are not. That's like someone saying they are bulletproof because they survived a game of Russian Roulette. That person is not bulletproof, they're just lucky.
Now you say you consider the virus to be serious. Glad to hear that. Although I wonder how serious since you have not changed anything.
My agenda is ending the covid scourge with all deliberate speed. I want it to be over. It makes life suck so bad, so much that I suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts for the first time in my life this past winter. It got bad... very low. Never experienced that before... and a large part of it was because it feels like life isn't worth living anymore in a world like this, and more importantly - with people like what covid has exposed. I never dreamed that so many of my fellow Americans were so callous, so uncaring about 600k deaths, and then they won't even take medicine to make things better. They would callously spread the virus uncaring about deaths.
We don't have that many weapons against it - distancing & masks were the only weapons that we had prior to the vaccines, and those are the same weapons we had 100 years ago. Now we have the vaccine, which if everyone got, we would be much further along in ending it. I remain baffled why people are so resistant to reducing their risk and helping get us through this. We don't HAVE any other weapons against it! The only other choice we have is to ignore the virus and let it do its work. Which again, is a world that I don't know is worth living in.
It's obvious we are conversing in two complete different languages. Again, for the umpteenth time I never said I was immune (again, said my natural immunity was adequate (do you see the difference in wording here?) so please you can stop the constant repetition on that.
I did not say I was bulletproof for crying out loud (re-read my post) and I'm not stupid enough to play Russian roulette (there, gave you an opening for another essay so you can run with it but I'm not playing anymore so not going to do you any good).
Because a person does not want to contaminate their bodies with chemicals does not make them callous. Argue if you will about how many chemicals are ingested now if you want, some people pay a lot more attention to what they put in their bodies than you may think they do.
You can just go on believing everything your government and media tells you and you can let them keep you in a tailspin from morning until night if that is what you choose to do - it's your business, not mine.
You can call me a liar and you can say I am callous, that's between you and your conscience. I think you would be happier turning off the news and trying to give your mind a rest from all of this since it affects you so intensely but again, none of my business, you do whatever it is you want to do.
I'm going to hit submit but I'm wondering why, I know none of this is going to connect with you.
Asking people to do a small thing to the make the world a slightly better place compared to the hell it is now, is not bullying.
One more thing I have to say to you. You really don't get it and I can see that. To you the vaccination is "a small thing to the make the world a slightly better place compared to the hell it is now". OK I get it, it is a small thing to you. How do you translate that to being a small thing for everyone else?
You say to make the world a slightly better place to live. Your outlook is bad to begin with so why are you worrying about all the if's? I can tell you, dying is not the worst thing that can happen to you.
Why not consider just going out and living life like you want? Stop with all the worrying. I bet if they took a poll, the people who worry constantly about getting the virus, do every insane thing they tell you to do to protect yourself from it are the high majority coming down with it.
Do what you want but remember, stress is a killer.
btw You mentioned that you saw I was now taking the virus seriously. I never said I didn't take it seriously but I felt I had to say it to you since you were so strung out about it. I still take it seriously, I just never think about it unless I come on here and see posts regarding it or hear about that Biden's so-called speech on what he's going to do about it since his patience has worn thin. Otherwise I just live and let live. Que Será, Será
Okay, I'll bite. What do you all think it would be like with a hypothetical 100% vaccination rate, lets even say age 0 and up are approved for vaccines? Do any of you really think Covid will ever be "over"? I keep reading all these comments about how we need to "end" Covid and "It needs to be dealt with". Humans think we are the center of the universe and can control everything but nature will win out, we aren't going to "get this under control". We have to figure out a compromise in which we learn to live with it (and each other).
Even a hypothetical 100% vaccination rate in the US would not stop this pandemic, that's completely silly and it's why this whole mandate push is a big scam. 90% of the third-world is not vaccinated. The Delta variant originated from India (have you noticed that they are already over it). The Mu variant has been emerging from Colombia. The government can bombard Americans with 5th and 10th boosters and put the blame on an unvaccinated minority, it won't change the fact that these current vaccines are not able to stop the virus, the foreign variants.
We just create a huge clusterf**k by dividing the world into over-vaccinated, partially-vaccinated and huge chunks of non-vaccinated territories. The most possible scenario is that the unvaccinated third-world will be the first to defeat Covid-19 by throwing a kitchen sink of various generic anti-malarial and anti-parasitic drugs at it out of necessity and gaining a robust natural immunity while at it. The West will be the long-hauler.
One more thing I have to say to you. You really don't get it and I can see that. To you the vaccination is "a small thing to the make the world a slightly better place compared to the hell it is now". OK I get it, it is a small thing to you. How do you translate that to being a small thing for everyone else?
How is getting 2 shots so bad? I would get 100 shots if it meant all this is over.
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You say to make the world a slightly better place to live. Your outlook is bad to begin with so why are you worrying about all the if's? I can tell you, dying is not the worst thing that can happen to you.
Why not consider just going out and living life like you want? Stop with all the worrying. I bet if they took a poll, the people who worry constantly about getting the virus, do every insane thing they tell you to do to protect yourself from it are the high majority coming down with it.
Do what you want but remember, stress is a killer.
btw You mentioned that you saw I was now taking the virus seriously. I never said I didn't take it seriously but I felt I had to say it to you since you were so strung out about it. I still take it seriously, I just never think about it unless I come on here and see posts regarding it or hear about that Biden's so-called speech on what he's going to do about it since his patience has worn thin. Otherwise I just live and let live. Que Será, Será
I can't just ignore it. I work in education, which covid has F**ed up, ROYALLY. It is a CONSTANT shifting of "what do we do if W, X, Y, Z happens?" Constantly shifting regulations and studies coming about this or that.
We are internally having the vaccine mandate fight right now, with one group of faculty and staff threating to quit and sue if we mandate the the vaccine, and another group of faculty and staff threating to quit and sue if we don't mandate the vaccine for both staff and students. The administration tried to take a middle ground and mandate it for a some and not for others. That satisfied NO ONE. Now both camps have gone to the local media to make their case, and made it a PR debacle. They are making the same arguments as people everywhere pro and con vaccines.
I don't know who's more obnoxious, the "It's my choooiice!" people or the ones who say "if I my children catch covid I'm suing the school for millions!" or say that "we don't care about their lives." The big freakout right now seems to be concern over the under-12 unvaccinated kids and "bringing it home" to them.
Here are the kinds of things we have to deal with:
E.g.:
What to do if one student in one class tests positive"
What to do if one student in one class thinks they have symptoms?
What about multiple students of the same as above?
What to do if a student was asymptomatic and later tests positive, and exposed the class or multiple classes?
What do do if an instructor tests positive?
How many students have to get sick, and how sick, before a class has to go remote?
" " " , before the school has to go remote?
What to do if an instructor gets very sick / dies? Especially now that new instructors are not easily available and subs even less so.
How much to distance? How to find adequate space for distance in facilities never meant to be that spread out?
How to have students work in groups at distance [which is just absurd on its face]?
How much funding will we lose because we can't run classes or programs, or can't find instructors either because they won't take the vaccine or are afraid of dying from covid?
That's just a small sample. And in any case, all of it F***S UP the actual mission. Students are not learning this way. They just aren't. Once the vaccine came out I was determined to get it so I could do my real job in reality again. But no. It's not ending. Everything that I used to like, everything that used to make it a worthwhile job is just... dead now. I suppose I could quit, but I have devoted more than half my life up to this point to it. It is my life. Or at least was.
Like I said, I WANT IT OVER and it seems that vaccines are the best exit ramp we have. If not that, then what? Seems to me that the only answer left is doing nothing and letting the virus rip. But then the "you don't care about our lives!" people will go berserk and actually follow through on lawsuits for all I know.
Last edited by redguard57; 09-15-2021 at 06:32 PM..
Yeah, I kind of do want life to be worth living again. That would be better for... well everyone. Not just me. I don't see how covid lasting ever longer and longer is good for anyone. It needs to be dealt with, as fast as possible. Instead we are dragging it out, seemingly doing everything in our power to NOT fix it.
If you feel your life is not worth living right now, then the virus has zero to do with it. You need to seek professional help, ASAP.
At that, vaccinated people are getting it, dying from it, spreading it, so I am baffled how you think vaccines are going to stop it.
If you feel your life is not worth living right now, then the virus has zero to do with it. You need to seek professional help, ASAP.
The virus has everything to do with it.
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At that, vaccinated people are getting it, dying from it, spreading it, so I am baffled how you think vaccines are going to stop it.
How many of the ones dying from it are vaccinated? Not many. The local hospital system tweets out how many of its covid patients were vaccinated - Out of dozens with serious cases only 1 was fully vaccinated.
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Otherwise I just live and let live. Que Será, Será