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Socially, and to an extent, socioeconomic. The vast majority of those who are underclass in their behaviors and in their mentality tend to be poor, have high likelihoods of being unemployed. You can be poor without having underclass behaviors.
Over the years the new white trash always seemed to find the existing white trash in my neighborhood.
We've had two lower-class black families come and go ... guess who gravitated towards them while they were here?
I grew up middle class, both parents in the home. Education was heavily stressed in my family. I lived in a middle class neighborhood. However, even some supposedly middle class White kids exhibited behaviors that I would consider trashy. Specifically, the kids who were part of the skateboarder subculture. I don't know what it is about skateboarders, but there is a strain of "jerk" mentality, a strain of "I'm gonna do what I want, laws or morals be darned".
The high school I went to, there was a sizable "redneck" subculture. Disregard for education, a willingness to exhibit violent behavior. I've seen some trashy behavior from some individuals within that subculture.
I find it rather ironic that the the "white trash" would gravitate to those lower-class Black families. Growing up, the majority of the White kids that bullied me and gave me so many problems, were the kids from lower-class backgrounds. It wasn't the star quarterback giving me problems or the popular kids giving me problems. It was the trashy kids giving me the most problems. Even more ironic, a Black classmate of mine, he had a bit of ghetto still left in him. He was a stepchild from another relationship. We lived in the same neighborhood. He gravitated towards the trashy kids, the druggies. Those were some of the kids that bullied me.
I remember a few kids who had no problem calling me racial slurs, but would hang with some Black kid who who came off as quite stupid. One of those Black kids was also a bully. I haven't forgotten it. When I was in 6th grade, he was literally the only other Black boy on the bus. He would bully me along with some of the other kids on the bus. One of his friends was a kid who called me a racial slur. He called me a racial slur, but would hang with that Black dude who was a bully to me. The Black kid is question was in a grade ahead of me. He got held back and ended up in my grade. I saw him one afternoon and he bragged about being held back a grade, and ended with "looks like I get to mess with you all next year".
One particular thing I think about is this. Some very strong racial tensions have often taken place between working class Blacks and working class Whites. There are some very strange dynamics that take place.
You completely missed the point I was making. It’s not that there aren’t plenty of blacks getting educations and doing as they should. That’s not the issue.
The specific issue I was talking about is the cultural belief held by a substantial portion or subgroup of the black population that “doing well in school or speaking properly = acting white.”
This train of thought has been detrimental to the black community because many kids growing up don’t want to be perceived as “acting white or selling out” so they don’t want to achieve academically. Instead being good at basketball/football or rapping is what is perceived as being cool. This is in part why the academic achievement and test scores of blacks are the lowest of all groups.
I am not talking about the ghettos/poor areas/hood which the rest of your response dived in to. I witnessed this mentality among blacks in the upper/middle class suburb I grew up in when I was in middle school and high school.......
I will see if you have a reply to this, now that I’ve clarified.
This is what I have to say. I've gotten plenty of "you act White" and "you talk White" comments in my life. I've never gotten it from middle upper class Blacks. I've never gotten it from white collar Blacks. I don't know who you have been hanging around, but everything you've just said, I take some issue with. While what you've mentioned certainly exists, and I've seen some of it, I haven't seen nearly as much of it as you're talking about. I was never told "you're selling out" because I was the smart kid. I was never told "you act White" by other Black kids because I liked reading books and studied. What I got were kids who were calling me a nerd, claiming I was "lame". Black kids who did study and got good grades, I never dealt with such problems from them.
Some of the Black kids who studied and got good grades, found other Black kids doing the same thing. While what you're saying can certainly exist among suburban Blacks, in my experience, it's not nearly as common. Then again, I had alot of problems from many kids, both White and Black. Interestingly, many of the kids who claimed "you talk White" and the like, some of those comments came from White kids. That is just something I dealt with. Plenty of "Carlton Banks" references and jokes to go around.
That "keeping it real" stuff, I saw some of it. There wee definitely some underclass Blacks who went to my high school. At the same time, I was never told "getting good grades is for White kids" by any middle class Black kids. My solution was simple. Stay away from anyone who would cause problems for me. Going to college really opened my eyes to some things. That "keeping it real" attitude, I saw those mostly among kids who grew up in the ghetto. I didn't see much of that from middle class Blacks/suburb Blacks.
I've said this before in other threads. The top way to stop this crap is for people to defend themselves. The only thing a violent criminal of any race understands is violence.
This is what I have to say. I've gotten plenty of "you act White" and "you talk White" comments in my life. I've never gotten it from middle upper class Blacks. I've never gotten it from white collar Blacks. I don't know who you have been hanging around, but everything you've just said, I take some issue with. While what you've mentioned certainly exists, and I've seen some of it, I haven't seen nearly as much of it as you're talking about. I was never told "you're selling out" because I was the smart kid. I was never told "you act White" by other Black kids because I liked reading books and studied. What I got were kids who were calling me a nerd, claiming I was "lame". Black kids who did study and got good grades, I never dealt with such problems from them.
Some of the Black kids who studied and got good grades, found other Black kids doing the same thing. While what you're saying can certainly exist among suburban Blacks, in my experience, it's not nearly as common. Then again, I had alot of problems from many kids, both White and Black. Interestingly, many of the kids who claimed "you talk White" and the like, some of those comments came from White kids. That is just something I dealt with. Plenty of "Carlton Banks" references and jokes to go around.
That "keeping it real" stuff, I saw some of it. There wee definitely some underclass Blacks who went to my high school. At the same time, I was never told "getting good grades is for White kids" by any middle class Black kids. My solution was simple. Stay away from anyone who would cause problems for me. Going to college really opened my eyes to some things. That "keeping it real" attitude, I saw those mostly among kids who grew up in the ghetto. I didn't see much of that from middle class Blacks/suburb Blacks.
I am White, so can’t say what the actual experience is, but I’m just telling you what I viewed from my perspective. I grew up in an upper-middle class suburb, and almost all of the black kids who did well academically or didn’t fit the stereotype were considered “nerds” and were ostracized by the “popular” black kids.
You may take issue with it, but that is just my personal experience as an outsider looking in. I realize that you, being black, will have a more intricate perspective, but I’m just sharing my observations as a white person.
This is what I have to say. I've gotten plenty of "you act White" and "you talk White" comments in my life. I've never gotten it from middle upper class Blacks. I've never gotten it from white collar Blacks. I don't know who you have been hanging around, but everything you've just said, I take some issue with. While what you've mentioned certainly exists, and I've seen some of it, I haven't seen nearly as much of it as you're talking about. I was never told "you're selling out" because I was the smart kid. I was never told "you act White" by other Black kids because I liked reading books and studied. What I got were kids who were calling me a nerd, claiming I was "lame". Black kids who did study and got good grades, I never dealt with such problems from them.
Some of the Black kids who studied and got good grades, found other Black kids doing the same thing. While what you're saying can certainly exist among suburban Blacks, in my experience, it's not nearly as common. Then again, I had alot of problems from many kids, both White and Black. Interestingly, many of the kids who claimed "you talk White" and the like, some of those comments came from White kids. That is just something I dealt with. Plenty of "Carlton Banks" references and jokes to go around.
That "keeping it real" stuff, I saw some of it. There wee definitely some underclass Blacks who went to my high school. At the same time, I was never told "getting good grades is for White kids" by any middle class Black kids. My solution was simple. Stay away from anyone who would cause problems for me. Going to college really opened my eyes to some things. That "keeping it real" attitude, I saw those mostly among kids who grew up in the ghetto. I didn't see much of that from middle class Blacks/suburb Blacks.
People don’t want to admit that the “talk white” comments come from kids of all backgrounds, not just Black. Some White kids (and even adults) like to ask you where you are from just because you don’t speak like the stereotype they have in their heads. They will shamelessly tell you just that despite how idiotic and ignorant they sound.
As you said, studious African-descended/Black children find others who are the same and there are none of those comments in those circles. In my experience, we ended up at the same elite universities as well.
However, I remember even at university, we had those experiences with people of other backgrounds. I remember this group of white guys when my friends and I were waiting to be seated at a campus restaurant. They decided to start speaking loudly in whatever stereotypical “black” speech they knew. Almost instinctively, we turned and started speaking in Caribbean dialect(s). They looked so confused and completely thrown off. It was hilarious. We got a good laugh later.
So yes, as you said, those close-minded attitudes come from all different groups. The best thing to do is steer clear of them.
There are thousands of people to move. While there are certainly plenty of places to move said persons, there are holes in this. It is like I said. Underclass, dysfunctional types will find each other. There is a better chance of said persons falling in with the underclass Whites than learning from the higher echelons of the White population.
This might be true for the fourteen year old but not necessarily children under ten. It's these children who may ultimately benefit from such a move.
A pilot program: Shut down the housing projects in Chicago/Oakland and relocate the residents into areas around the country. Only one family per area.
Yes, there are thousands to relocate. And it'll be costly. However given money already spent over the years and the dismal results it's certainly with a go.
People don’t want to admit that the “talk white” comments come from kids of all backgrounds, not just Black. Some White kids (and even adults) like to ask you where you are from just because you don’t speak like the stereotype they have in their heads. They will shamelessly tell you just that despite how idiotic and ignorant they sound.
As you said, studious African-descended/Black children find others who are the same and there are none of those comments in those circles. In my experience, we ended up at the same elite universities as well.
However, I remember even at university, we had those experiences with people of other backgrounds. I remember this group of white guys when my friends and I were waiting to be seated at a campus restaurant. They decided to start speaking loudly in whatever stereotypical “black” speech they knew. Almost instinctively, we turned and started speaking in Caribbean dialect(s). They looked so confused and completely thrown off. It was hilarious. We got a good laugh later.
So yes, as you said, those close-minded attitudes come from all different groups. The best thing to do is steer clear of them.
It can come from people of ANY ethnicity. I have the experience to prove it. I got quite a bit of "you talk White" comments in high school, and on occasion in university. It was quite angering for me to hear such remarks. And in my case, I'm not of Caribbean or any foreign background. I'm straight up American. I have been asked several times "where are you from". For the most part, people will say it's because I don't sound like I'm from the South. Some will say "it's because no one here is from here". I've been inclined to believe it. Of course, I do wonder if some people ask because I don't sound like
I remember one kid, White kid, he said "you're Black, but you don't talk like it". I called him out immediately. I was angry. To me, what he was saying was "You're weird. It's weird that you speak proper English". He made his comment shamelessly. When called out, he went to "just chill dude, I'm just saying".
I agree that studious Black people will find each other. I've seen it for myself. I've been around such Black people. I know one classmate from high school who became a doctor. She's happily married with a child, and her own practice. Studious Black woman.
Your experience in the restaurant reminds me of how stupid some people really are. A few people have tried that with me. I look at said persons as idiots. One thing I did deal with were a few kids who kept begging me to do "the Carlton dance" (anyone who has watched Fresh Prince of Bel Air will know what that is). I didn't want to do because I knew exactly where that was going. Said persons viewed me being "a non-stereotypical Black American" the way a person would view a pink poodle or some kind of mascot. It was like some people viewed me with a type of bewilderment. I start wondering "is this person really just that stupid?".
There are certain individuals who are not worth trying to reach. Some people are just that stupid, that incorrigible. Some people don't want to be reached. Some have been that way for so long it's all they know.
I am White, so can’t say what the actual experience is, but I’m just telling you what I viewed from my perspective. I grew up in an upper-middle class suburb, and almost all of the black kids who did well academically or didn’t fit the stereotype were considered “nerds” and were ostracized by the “popular” black kids.
You may take issue with it, but that is just my personal experience as an outsider looking in. I realize that you, being black, will have a more intricate perspective, but I’m just sharing my observations as a white person.
Well, in alot of cases, there is alot more than just meets the eye. While what you describe certainly exists, it's not that simple. Yes, I have a more intricate experience. Growing up, it wasn't just some of the Black kids I got ostracized by. I was getting bullied by many of the White kids. And there were several kids, both Black and White, who applauded me being studious. My point is that there are alot of factions within the Black population. The faction that leads progress, that leads the growth of the middle and upper classes, that group can only do so much to get the underclass types to get their act together. Alot of the "you act White" crap comes from underclass. I haven't seen it nearly as much among those who have made it, who have stepped up.
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