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Old 12-15-2021, 09:12 AM
 
26,782 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10039

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...meanwhile, have you seen what's going on with the gas pricing in Europe?


https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...ral-gas-prices


https://www.europeangashub.com/globa...-the-moon.html
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Old 12-15-2021, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,842,830 times
Reputation: 857
Go Russia, go! You are the last hope for our humanity!
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:03 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,125 posts, read 18,290,317 times
Reputation: 34995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I think that this announcement is make NATO back away. It is a scare tactic.

But I don't agree that there will be no invasion of Ukraine, they have already done it. They will take a huge slice of Ukraine if they are not stopped. Probably the ultimate goal is to seize the entire Black Sea coast eventually, linking up with Moldova and making Ukraine a landlocked rump state like Belarus.

They need to act on this before Ukraine joins NATO, so the plan is in the works.
There are 2 sides of a story here.

This is a good read that asks ALL the questions that no one will answer.


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/12/...ar-in-ukraine/

The problem, as so often, is that the very same elements that can be cited as evidence of Russia’s aggressive intent, in terms of troop deployment and rhetoric, can also be viewed as reactive – that is, defensive. Yet the idea that Putin might be trying to reinforce Russia’s national security against what he might see as a Western threat – taking the form, say, of the NATO-backed land-grab for Ukraine – is almost never entertained. Yet consider which side has made the running here.
..
It might now be worth considering some peculiarities about the way this whole Russian-invasion scenario has been put about and how it has been magnified into a threat not just to Ukraine, but also to the EU and to the West as a whole.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:20 PM
 
8,726 posts, read 7,416,359 times
Reputation: 12612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post



Russia want's the West to join it in a moratorium on intermediate-range nuclear forces (INF) in Europe, which would form part of a package of security guarantees it is seeking as the price for defusing the crisis over Ukraine.

The US withdrew from the INF pact in 2019 after complaining for years of alleged violations revolving around Russia's development of a ground-launched cruise missile that Moscow calls the 9M729 and NATO refers to as the "Screwdriver".

As for current tensions and relations they are down to Putin and his regime and not the West.
You sort of missed some things there, lol.

The US was and did develop intermediate range missiles during this time. The US started conducting tests immediately after withdrawing from the pact. Matter of fact, two weeks after withdrawing, the US tested its ground based intermediate range missile system, which was essentially a sea based Tomahawk system.

So, the US accuses Russia of developing a system, all the while developing one itself, lol.

Russia was complaining for years the need for an exemption, as it wanted to deploy intermediate missiles to its southern borders, with China and Pakistan in mind. This was brought up again and again with each US administration, every time ignored.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:25 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,125 posts, read 18,290,317 times
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Each country has to bang the war drum to justify the huge military complex they have.

Notice most of Europe is also onboard. Some THING has to justify the military budgets
We played out the ME so we have to turn back to Russia now as the eminent threat to "world peace" (which will never be obtained).
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:33 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,448,119 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I think that this announcement is make NATO back away. It is a scare tactic.

But I don't agree that there will be no invasion of Ukraine, they have already done it. They will take a huge slice of Ukraine if they are not stopped. Probably the ultimate goal is to seize the entire Black Sea coast eventually, linking up with Moldova and making Ukraine a landlocked rump state like Belarus.

They need to act on this before Ukraine joins NATO, so the plan is in the works.
I believe you are correct if Russia attacks Ukraine. They will occupy the eastern and central parts of the country in a north south line from Kiev and points due west almost to to Moldavian border or leave the west bank of the Dneipre river (the lands west of the bend) unoccupied only occupying Odessa in the south and Kiev in the north.

I don't know why the Russians are waiting. The are already NATO troops crawling over Ukraine. Given time NATO first strike assets will be within minutes of the Russian heartland. Going forward the EU and US/NATO have ONE goal. To eliminate Russia as a nation. THERE IS NO OTHER GOAL.

The only chance Russia has to stave off this threat is to keep the North European plain under it's control and to keep distance between the aggressors and it's vitals.

I don't see any other option for Russia. The intent of the West is clear. Either way there will be war of some kind. In this situation the best defense is a good offense.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:38 PM
 
2,518 posts, read 1,301,601 times
Reputation: 1673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post

A new arms race and more sanctions will just cause Russia to repeat the same mistakes as in the 80's, when the Soviet Union all but bankrupted it's self when it became embroiled in an arms race with the US under the Reagan administration.
Nuclear arms are actually super cheap compared to deploying millions of soldiers.

I wonder what will happen when the Irish will gather one day and vote for independence from the UK. Will NATO smash them?
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:39 PM
 
30,438 posts, read 21,280,188 times
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Just the same old crap with nukes duke.
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Old 12-15-2021, 05:44 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,125 posts, read 18,290,317 times
Reputation: 34995
The US has no reason to be involved. We have no stakes over there.

Europe does so let them go invade to protect the oil and gas.
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Old 12-15-2021, 06:04 PM
 
2,518 posts, read 1,301,601 times
Reputation: 1673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I don't know why the Russians are waiting.
Russians are waiting because most Ukrainians have been anti-Russian.

Ukrainians were told that the Ukraine would be part of the West with salaries higher than in Germany, with Western investments flowing to the Ukraine...

Mercedes had a choice of building new factories in the free Ukraine, Putin's Russia or communist China. It has built them in China and Russia, but not in the Ukraine. Mercedes is not stupid to pay German salaries in the Ukraine, when workers in Russia and China are happy to work for less.
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