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It would be interesting to see how the tune of these pro-Russian anti-American agitators would change if they went to live under Putin's boot for a couple of years. But of course that won't happen. By the time they figure out his true intentions it will be far too late. We saw exactly the same sort of ignorance here in the USA in the run-up to WW1 and to WW2, so it's really no surprise.
Putin has finally made clear what we all suspected long ago - he yearns for a return to the good old days of the Soviet Union. The sovereign countries on his short list like Georgia, Belarus and Ukraine are either under his boot or will be soon. On his long list? Every country in Europe not currently in NATO.
He's not strong enough to attack NATO just yet, but there is little doubt that he would not hesitate to start a "WW3" if he felt it gave him an advantage. Look at Russia's constant efforts to extend their empire in WW1 and WW2. They never hesitated to engage Western Europe in land war, always looking for opportunities to expand their control. Although they were "allies" in WW1 and WW2, in reality they were always looking after their own self interests.
It is good to refresh our memory about how Russia/USSR extended their control into Eastern Europe after WW2. It took over the governments in Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia. Only Greece and occupied Austria remained free. The Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were made into republics. Even Finland was partly controlled by the Soviets. Russia also had strong relationships in Italy and France which continue to this day.
Here in 2022, he does not have a land path to Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro, an area where Russia has long had influence, since they are surrounded by NATO countries. Putin can't attack them directly, but without doubt he will work hard to foment division within those nations - just like he is here in the USA. Read some of the comments in this thread if you have any doubt about the effectiveness of their Active Measures program.
Point is, anyone who dreams/imagines/fantasizes that Putin/Russia will stop with the acquisition of Ukraine will be dead wrong.
In this map, dark blue are NATO countries, Orange are "Partnership for Peace" countries (in other words a non-nod, wink-wink relation with NATO), and the other colors are sovereign nations at some level of discussion about joining NATO.
It would be interesting to see how the tune of these pro-Russian anti-American agitators would change if they went to live under Putin's boot for a couple of years. But of course that won't happen. By the time they figure out his true intentions it will be far too late. We saw exactly the same sort of ignorance here in the USA in the run-up to WW1 and to WW2, so it's really no surprise.
Putin has finally made clear what we all suspected long ago - he yearns for a return to the good old days of the Soviet Union. The sovereign countries on his short list like Georgia, Belarus and Ukraine are either under his boot or will be soon. On his long list? Every country in Europe not currently in NATO.
He's not strong enough to attack NATO just yet, but there is little doubt that he would not hesitate to start a "WW3" if he felt it gave him an advantage. Look at Russia's constant efforts to extend their empire in WW1 and WW2. They never hesitated to engage Western Europe in land war, always looking for opportunities to expand their control. Although they were "allies" in WW1 and WW2, in reality they were always looking after their own self interests.
It is good to refresh our memory about how Russia/USSR extended their control into Eastern Europe after WW2. It took over the governments in Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia. Only Greece and occupied Austria remained free. The Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were made into republics. Even Finland was partly controlled by the Soviets. Russia also had strong relationships in Italy and France which continue to this day.
Here in 2022, he does not have a land path to Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro, an area where Russia has long had influence, since they are surrounded by NATO countries. Putin can't attack them directly, but without doubt he will work hard to foment division within those nations - just like he is here in the USA. Read some of the comments in this thread if you have any doubt about the effectiveness of their Active Measures program.
Point is, anyone who dreams/imagines/fantasizes that Putin/Russia will stop with the acquisition of Ukraine will be dead wrong.
In this map, dark blue are NATO countries, Orange are "Partnership for Peace" countries (in other words a non-nod, wink-wink relation with NATO), and the other colors are sovereign nations at some level of discussion about joining NATO.
Putin's actions will just result in a rejuvenated NATO, with countries such as Sweden and Finland eager to join.
The other orange countries are mainly Switzerland, Austria and the RoI.
In terms of a conventional war, the Russians would find it difficult to take Ukraine with a population of 44 million, against 130,000 Russian troops and Putin is well aware that Russia would not win a conventional war with NATO.
Putin's actions will just result in a rejuvenated NATO, with countries such as Sweden and Finland eager to join.
The other orange countries are mainly Switzerland, Austria and the RoI.
In terms of a conventional war, the Russians would find it difficult to take Ukraine with a population of 44 million, against 130,000 Russian troops and Putin is well aware that Russia would not win a conventional war with NATO.
The EU should just add Ukraine now. Shut down Putin. If he continues his actions, Putin will be the reason for a new large war.
That’s the worst idea ever. Not only would it violate NATO’s promise not to expand east but also remove a negotiation chip. Russia would then have cause and motivation for an armed conflict with NATO. It would also bind us into military action if Russia did invade Ukraine, leading to nuclear war.
Just recognize the separatist regions and Putin loses all his cards.
Those people ARE nasty, irrespectively from any Putin.
So it shouldn't have been even Putin, but it was supposed to be the West actually to step in and to expose these people for what they are.
Instead of it - the deafening silence.
Now why is that, Easthome?
The West should have invaded Russia back in the 90ies to establish peace and democracy, when the looting was going on and the money were channeled in the direction of your country's banks and real estate in particular, and people were dying on the streets.
Before any Putin showed up on the horizon.
But again, the West didn't do it.
Now why this would be a case, Easthome?
Once you will answer these questions, we'll talk about the "international laws" that the nasty Putin broke and keeps on going.
Whatever Ukraine does in its own country makes no bloody difference! Russia has invaded a sovereign state, Russia is in the wrong, how stupid does Putin think people are! Its so bloody obvious what he's doing! Just because its easy to 'pull the wool' over the eyes of your average Russian doesn't make people on the rest of the globe stupid! Russia is a sh*thole but as long as Russia is doing all of its sh*te in Russia then its not the business of anybody else to invade, same with China, same with North Korea or Saudi Arabia etc, we all know the atrocities that happen in these places. Putin obviously wants to annex Ukraine into mother Russia and he will do it by invading, that puts him alongside other such historical figures as Hitler or Stalin.
Russia has NO RIGHT to invade a seperate sovereign state - end of!
Whatever Ukraine does in its own country makes no bloody difference! Russia has invaded a sovereign state, Russia is in the wrong, how stupid does Putin think people are! Its so bloody obvious what he's doing! Just because its easy to 'pull the wool' over the eyes of your average Russian doesn't make people on the rest of the globe stupid! Russia is a sh*thole but as long as Russia is doing all of its sh*te in Russia then its not the business of anybody else to invade, same with China, same with North Korea or Saudi Arabia etc, we all know the atrocities that happen in these places. Putin obviously wants to annex Ukraine into mother Russia and he will do it by invading, that puts him alongside other such historical figures as Hitler or Stalin.
Russia has NO RIGHT to invade a seperate sovereign state - end of!
The government was overthrown easthome.
And the new regime sanctioned burning protestors alive (Odessa) and bombed hospitals. They are no a 'sovereign' state.
What so special about Donetsk/Luhansk, Putin risk sanctions and possibly war
What so special about Donetsk/Luhansk, Putin willing to get more sanctions, and possible war with the cray cray Democrats?
Crimea I get. But what is so great about Donetsk/Luhansk besides lots of Russians? Is the farmland good? Is there a huge gold deposit? Uranium or Plutonium? They are small provinces. Russia has Siberia. If Putin wants to bring in more Russians, just let the people there migrate to Russia. There is plenty of space in Siberia.
Russia just get hit with more sanctions now. Plus he risked War, assuming Ukraine, and Russia are not shooting at each other as I type. However, he risked war with crazy Democrats.
If Putin wanted to stick it to USA, he should just leave troops at the border and never invade. That make USA govt who have been screaming that Putin going to invade look even worse. If Putin leaves those Russians in Ukraine, then he has an even better way to control Ukraine. Those provinces will have representatives in the govt of Ukraine. Putin can control those pro-Russian officials, and get intel, and vetos.
The thing with the pseudo nations formed through Russian interference is that they do have multi party unicameral parliamentary systems. A capacity to vote for different party or independent candidates does exist whereas the Communist Party of the Soviet Union held unilateral dictate. What you could point to is the economic dependency South Ossetia and Abkhazia have on Russia. The Abkhazian railway is monopolistically handled by a Russian company for instance.
I don't believe Putin is interested in revitalising the old Soviet model. The man himself stated that while to not miss the Soviet Union was considered 'heartless' from his perspective, to desire its return is want of common sense. It's the geopolitical defensibility of his country plus I'm guessing economic hegemony in the region that he wants. Doesn't excuse Russia's outward aggression however.
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What so special about Donetsk/Luhansk, Putin risk sanctions and possibly war
