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It does seem that Republicans don't trust the ballot machines, and it might be time to come together and say although this technology is FABULOUS and makes elections cheap, we won't use it this cycle.
We'll all just agree to have votes counted by hand, with cameras on all votes and all vote counters, and both parties standing by to nod their heads that the vote was counted correctly, and maybe then we'll finally be able to say do you finally get it? You're out numbered fair and square, the election hasn't been stolen from you.
I'm willing to spend that large amount of money, although I do realize even with all that, and a committee of members from each party agreeing on the plan and signing off that the election was fair, there will be death threats against republican committee members if democrats win again fair and square.
I think you are very lonely in your party with that view.
But I agree. That's exactly what needs to be done. Of course I don't agree with you on the outcome. I think it would be just the opposite of what you assume... and those threats would be coming in... just the opposite as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
I think you are very lonely in your party with that view.
But I agree. That's exactly what needs to be done. Of course I don't agree with you on the outcome. I think it would be just the opposite of what you assume... and those threats would be coming in... just the opposite as well.
I have seen almost no cases of proven vote fraud from the last election, and those few cases where fraud was found, the votes benefited Trump.
I strongly believe if we drew up the next election counting system exactly as I said, and there were certified watchers of each party, and pictures of each vote, those elections that went to democrats would STILL cause the fringe right to say they were fraudulent.
I strongly believe if we drew up the next election counting system exactly as I said, and there were certified watchers of each party, and pictures of each vote, those elections that went to democrats would STILL cause the fringe right to say they were fraudulent.
Yup, if the election didn't go their way, they'd just come up with some other excuse as to why the count was fraudulent.
Having failed to find any fraud or any errors in voting machines the GOP wants to return to hand recounts. They were central to creating fear in the voting system and now they need to instill voter confidence, sounds like a self fulfilling prophesy. I have a better idea, just shut up about massive fraud until you have some facts supporting the claim. This will cost these states millions.
Arizona already spent millions in a hand recount lasting several months and found nothing, but don't let facts get in the way.
I've got no problem with that as long as observers are allowed to view the ballots and counting to verify accuracy. There is no way for and observer to know if a machines count is accurate or not.
Observers, yes. But also live stream and video record EVERYTHING that happens to a paper ballot- dropped in the box, taken out, hand counted one-by-one on a table on camera, each precinct. Then, the ballots go BACK into the box and the box delivered to election headquarters, also on video. If anyone has a question they can review the video of each precinct. Or, take all boxes to election headquarters and count them there on camera.
This would ensure voting integrity, but also then need to ensure each voter is registered and legit. Every person dropping a ballot into a box at every precinct is also on camera, and holds up their registration card to the camera. Only ONE person can drop ONE ballot into the box at a time. When a ballot is dropped, a poll worker pushes +1 on a calculator to keep count of total voters and ballots.
Everyone- the public, press, poll workers, party officials, are allowed to observe and record on camera everything going on in the precinct, including the dropping of ballots into the box and the counting of ballots one-by-one. Each count will start at zero and the count will go up +1 until the last. All on camera. Posted online for anyone to review. There will be multiple cameras from many sources recording the vote counting.
The final tally is what's seen on camera after the last ballot has been counted, and all are on camera with no editing. All counted one at at time.
Video is proof. Everything we do now is on video! Except voting. They even banned cameras at election stations! With all on video, no one will even ask for a recount unless the lights go out or something unusual. NO computers. Just a calculator.
This is a great example of what me and ClaraC were talking about.
The machine ballot-counting rant is just a red herring. No matter what happened, if an election didn't go the way the some right-wingers wanted, they would just come up with some other excuse to cry "fraud!" If it wasn't the machines they could complain about, they would complain about the ballots instead.
It does seem that Republicans don't trust the ballot machines, and it might be time to come together and say although this technology is FABULOUS and makes elections cheap, we won't use it this cycle.
We'll all just agree to have votes counted by hand, with cameras on all votes and all vote counters, and both parties standing by to nod their heads that the vote was counted correctly,
Well said. I agree fully with this.
Provided, of course, that there is an equally successful effort to validate absentee ballots, and non-absentee people can only vote on one day: "Election Day".
Quote:
there will be death threats against republican committee members if democrats win again fair and square.
Sounds like you've got them on speed dial already.
I have always believed that hand counting is a good idea. I don’t see it as going backwards, but as a step toward election integrity and confidence in its outcome as being legitimate. Technology can be hacked.
Exactly right.
The only ballots that count in an election, should be the hand-counted ones. Counted while observers from both parties carefully look on - and not from ten feet away either.
That said, I have no objection to ballot-counters using machines on Election Night to quickly whiz thru the ballots and come up with a preliminary count for the TV cameras... as long as:
(a) no machine has an internet connection, either by cable, wi-fi, or any other means; and
(b) the machine-counted ballots are then placed in bins that are marked with the results for that bin. And those bins are carefully taken to tables and tables of hand-counters, with live video cameras pointed at every one of them, who count them for the REAL election, while the above-mentioned observers from both parties watch closely. And the hand-counters' totals are compared to the machine totals, and records carefully kept.
(c) the machine-counted results displayed on TV during the election, are NOT considered the "official" totals. They are just presented for convenience. Only the results of the hand-counting of ballots, will count.
Sure, there will be far more hand-counters (and observers) than machine-runners. After the antics, fraud and cheating by Democrats in election after election, it's the ONLY safeguard against their doing even more such. That will cost money, more than just using machines and trusting them. Maybe we should send the bills to the Democrats. Once an entire Presidential election goes by with NO evidence of cheating, then we can start dividing the bills equally between Democrats and Republicans. (No, we CANNOT start running elections without tight observation and security.)
"The people who vote, decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything." -Josef Stalin
Actually, it would be more like the 1850's, since they've had machines counting ballots as early as the late 1800's.
Yes, MACHINES. Simple machines that the average person could look at and understand the mechanics. Nothing hidden in a 100,000 lines of spaghetti code that only a software engineer or hacker can figure out. Black box technology has absolutely NO place in voting systems.
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