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It's called "dyedovschinna", or a hierarchical system where more senior conscripts haze the junior, beating them up, taking their rations, harrassing them in various ways. Older privates do it to younger. NCOs do it to the draftees. Officers to some extent do it to the enlisted. Senior officer to junior. Up and down the chain. That has been the case in the post-WW2 USSR, and was one reason why any reasonably intelligent person tried every possible means of avoiding the draft in Soviet times. I imagine that in post-Soviet times, it only got worse.
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It sounds like what South Korea is trying to get out of their services.
It sounds like what South Korea is trying to get out of their services.
From what I observed (and, to be honest, I don't know what was going on within their barracks), the ROK military is very tough, but not brutal...and not riddled with corruption.
It sounds like what South Korea is trying to get out of their services.
Have you talked to anyone that has served in the South Korean military? I am betting no but I am willing to listen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
From what I observed (and, to be honest, I don't know what was going on within their barracks), the ROK military is very tough, but not brutal...and not riddled with corruption.
As uncle to 4 young men that have all served their time in the South Korean military for their obligations can attest to their toughness and their fairness to those serving. The military in S Korea is strong in their training and on the other end I have not seen any sign of corruption either. In fact my youngest nephew is currently serving his time. While doing this he was found out to be absolutely fantastic at flipping between English and Korean so much so that the leadership have pulled him from the duty he was originally assigned to working in the headquarters directly for the commander of his unit. All of my nephews were studying in the US. They started in either middle school or high school in the US and have all gone on to colleges.
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^korean military movies. don't mess with S korean women in the military. Northern Line Limit (naval), Return to Base, (air)
The Admiral (historical naval)
Have you talked to anyone that has served in the South Korean military? I am betting no but I am willing to listen.
As uncle to 4 young men that have all served their time in the South Korean military for their obligations can attest to their toughness and their fairness to those serving. The military in S Korea is strong in their training and on the other end I have not seen any sign of corruption either. In fact my youngest nephew is currently serving his time. While doing this he was found out to be absolutely fantastic at flipping between English and Korean so much so that the leadership have pulled him from the duty he was originally assigned to working in the headquarters directly for the commander of his unit. All of my nephews were studying in the US. They started in either middle school or high school in the US and have all gone on to colleges.
Actually there is a Korean TV series on Netflix. D.P. which is the story of a South Korean Military Police draftee tasked with returning deserters to their units. The "a hierarchical system where more senior conscripts haze the junior, beating them up, taking their rations, harrassing them in various ways. Older privates do it to younger. NCOs do it to the draftees. Officers to some extent do it to the enlisted. Senior officer to junior. Up and down the chain." was shown as a feature of the young Privates M.P. Company and the show ended with a story based upon a Korean Marine going on a rage spree killing of members of his unit in 2011.
There being little commentary on the series I did come across a YouTube channel of a couple of South Korean vets who tend to confirm that the show runner was right about the hazing that went on in the ranks. And how the upper levels of the Korean military were trying to deal with the situation after it went so public with a friendly fire mass shooting by a bullied Marine.
The wiki, which the series interested me in looking up on Hazing in the Republic of Korea's Armed Forces puts the root on the problem on the initial leadership and military culture coming out of the Japanese occupation
Actually there is a Korean TV series on Netflix. D.P. which is the story of a South Korean Military Police draftee tasked with returning deserters to their units. The "a hierarchical system where more senior conscripts haze the junior, beating them up, taking their rations, harrassing them in various ways. Older privates do it to younger. NCOs do it to the draftees. Officers to some extent do it to the enlisted. Senior officer to junior. Up and down the chain." was shown as a feature of the young Privates M.P. Company and the show ended with a story based upon a Korean Marine going on a rage spree killing of members of his unit in 2011.
There being little commentary on the series I did come across a YouTube channel of a couple of South Korean vets who tend to confirm that the show runner was right about the hazing that went on in the ranks. And how the upper levels of the Korean military were trying to deal with the situation after it went so public with a friendly fire mass shooting by a bullied Marine.
The wiki, which the series interested me in looking up on Hazing in the Republic of Korea's Armed Forces puts the root on the problem on the initial leadership and military culture coming out of the Japanese occupation
You made a compelling argument. In fact the Korean marine going nuts almost made me believe you had a point. But, I was reminded of the entire spider thread you made the case upon while I sat down to dinner. You see, I am currently in Korea. You have heard I have nephews that have served and one currently serving in the military. What reminded of how thin you base your case on is how much drama is on the TV here. They are very adept at dramas. Case in point "Squid Games". But more importantly is how much drama they put into their TV shows here. They seem to be more vocal in how much they dismay, or hurt. The shows emphasize that drama to the extent I want to wear my Bose noise cancelling headphones. Your Korean Netflix show didn't help your cause as your point about the culture coming out of the Japanese occupation. You see Japan has not been an occupying force since long before I was born. 1945 and the end of WWII put the Japanese back on their island. While tensions are still there between the Japanese and Koreans there is still a friendship as well. They disagree on a number of things, and some of them have been overly dramatized as well. So thank you for your attempt. It was close but, no soap. I will tell you with my own eyes having served here as a US army soldier that worked along side ROK forces in the 80s and the information from my nephews who have worn uniforms when they tell me of their time. I will believe first hand accounts from South Koreans for myself.
Well, a certain somebody here (you know who you are ), who opined earlier in the conflict, that the US, or NATO, should get tough with Russia, got his wish. ...for better or for worse.
Today, in the NY Times:
Quote:
After a secret visit to Kyiv and a three-hour meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky, Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Sunday pledged broad economic, military and humanitarian support for Ukraine’s government, saying the United States would stand with its ally until Russia was defeated.
Drawing parallels with the American Revolution, the comments by Ms. Pelosi — who led a small delegation of Democratic lawmakers to Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, on Saturday — reflected the remarkable evolution of American policy toward Ukraine’s struggle against Russian aggression, as the war shows signs of turning into a prolonged conflict.
No mention of NATO in the meeting; this was the US acting alone, committing itself openly to the war with Russia. More billions for the national debt, more inflation, a hot war instead of a cold one.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 05-01-2022 at 11:58 AM..
Well, a certain somebody here (you know who you are ), who opined earlier in the conflict, that the US, or NATO, should get tough with Russia, got his wish. ...for better or for worse.
Today, in the NY Times:
No mention of NATO in the meeting; this was the US acting alone, committing itself openly to the war with Russia. More billions for the national debt, more inflation, a hot war instead of a cold one.
I do think that the Speaker is thinking more like supporting Israel in October 1973 than South Vietnam in August 1964
I do think that the Speaker is thinking more like supporting Israel in October 1973 than South Vietnam in August 1964
More info today on the American delegation's weekend visit to Kyiv.
It turns out, that Pelosi wasn't speaking on her own. The entire delegation, which included the US Secretary of Defense, was sharing the administration's new policy and commitment to Ukraine. As the article headline says, the Biden admin has been "emboldened by Ukraine's grit".
The American visit itself, led over the weekend by Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken, was completed early Monday and amounted to a risky dare to Russia, which has been seeking to subjugate Ukraine by force for more than two months. Russia has demanded that the United States and its NATO allies quit supplying advanced arms to Ukraine’s military.
Although the trip was supposed to be secret, word leaked, and Russia rained rockets on at least five Ukrainian rail stations hours after the visitors had finished talks with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv and then traveled by rail to Poland, which can take 11 hours. It is unclear whether they were in Ukraine during any part of those attacks or whether Russia had been targeting them.
The article notes, that Ukraine's rail lines into Poland are crucial to the flow of arms into Ukraine. This makes one wonder why Russia hasn't targeted those rail lines before, if it's so important to the man in charge to keep advanced arms out of Ukraine hands.
And who the heck leaked info of the American visit to the Russians?!?
The article notes, that Ukraine's rail lines into Poland are crucial to the flow of arms into Ukraine. This makes one wonder why Russia hasn't targeted those rail lines before, if it's so important to the man in charge to keep advanced arms out of Ukraine hands.
And who the heck leaked info of the American visit to the Russians?!?
Rapid repair of rail lines have been a concern of armies since the 1800s. The precision targeting of a train takes away units that might be doing other things. With air supremacy, if not precision guided weapons the US went after railroads in Germany, North Korea and around Vietnam yet support still got to the front. Russia does not have air supremacy.
It does seem as if the plan was to take over Kyiv and the government and be home by Easter, it wasn't supposed to last long enough to worry about Ukraine getting resupplied from abroad
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), who opined earlier in the conflict, that the US, or NATO, should get tough with Russia, got his wish. ...for better or for worse.