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Old 05-08-2022, 12:34 PM
 
899 posts, read 540,929 times
Reputation: 2184

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNomad View Post
I have no idea where your figures come from…but all I can do is show you stuff like this, which is typical of polls addressing Roe:

Sixty-six percent say Roe v. Wade should not be completely struck down, and 59% would support Congress passing legislation to establish a nationwide right to abortion, including 81% of Democrats, 65% of independents and 30% of Republicans, the survey finds.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/06/polit...ade/index.html

At worst your numbers show a worse case, and still more Americans support Roe than oppose it. You may not like it, but that is the state of public opinion.
We find majorities both in favor of abortion and in restricting abortion. What makes the American abortion debate so polarized is that it's become an all or nothing argument. For example, what many don't realize about the Mississippi abortion law is that it actually brings Mississippi in line with standard abortion policies in most of the western/developed world, which does have restrictions on abortion (usually first trimester) and quite often multiple hoops to go through to obtain an abortion. It's one reason why there's so little debate over abortion in these countries, a consensus was established democratically and compromise resulted in abortion with restrictions rather than the all or nothing wars in the US between the prolife and prochoice people.

Alito's brief overturning Roe vs Wade seems written on constitutional grounds, that in fact there is no constitutional protection for abortion. The allusion to one in Roe versus Wade was farcical, which even RBG agreed. It, however, does not rule out abortion being a ballot box issue and states establishing their own abortion laws. That seems to be the future going forward. And because of it, very little will change in real life.

 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:37 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNomad View Post
I have no idea where your figures come from…but all I can do is show you stuff like this, which is typical of polls addressing Roe:

Sixty-six percent say Roe v. Wade should not be completely struck down, and 59% would support Congress passing legislation to establish a nationwide right to abortion, including 81% of Democrats, 65% of independents and 30% of Republicans, the survey finds.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/06/polit...ade/index.html

At worst your numbers show a worse case, and still more Americans support Roe than oppose it. You may not like it, but that is the state of public opinion.
Like I said, when Americans are polled on the REASON for an abortion, when it comes to the 98.3% of abortions that are performed for the sake of convenience:

48% keep it legal
45% make it illegal

ABC/WaPo Poll

And THIS is why major corporations are NOT chiming in on either side.
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:39 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The ruling in Roe v. Wade was federal, so what are you attempting to say?
Any "right to privacy" was lost LONG before Roe will be overturned.
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:40 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
A valid case was made that a Constitutional Right was violated. That's why SCOTUS took up the Knick case.

In the cases of women convicted of harming their babies in utero, the women's Constitutional Rights weren't violated so SCOTUS declined to hear the cases.
How is that case analogous to the current scenario when you admit that the “women's Constitutional Rights weren't violated”?
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:42 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Apparently she is all in for judicial activism on the Supreme Court if it goes along with her idiosyncratic interpretations.
How is abiding by the US Constitution "judicial activism?" The Justices are doing what they've sworn to do in their oaths: support and defend the US Constitution.

Even RBG knew the 1973 Roe ruling had an inadequate Constitutional basis.
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,956,122 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
I have yet to see one pro abortion poster supply ANY statistics regarding the frequency of the bolded situation.

Not. One.

Wonder why. Perhaps because it is so incredibly rare as to be statistically insignificant? One would think they would be screeching those numbers to every chance they could to bolster their justification for abortion.

Yet ... Not. One. Statistic.
In your perfect world where no abortion is allowed, ever, what happens in that rare instance when a pregnant woman has pre-eclampsia or another serious condition that can only be solved by ending the pregnancy or by letting both mother and fetus die? What do you do for her if abortion is not available anymore?
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:47 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
How is that case analogous to the current scenario when you admit that the “women's Constitutional Rights weren't violated”?
Why would SCOTUS take up a case in which no one's Constitutional Rights were violated? They wouldn't. And didn't. The women were charged with and convicted of harming their own children in utero. Child neglect, abuse, murder, etc., is a crime. What confuses you about that?
 
Old 05-08-2022, 12:54 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Why would SCOTUS take up a case in which no one's Constitutional Rights were violated? They wouldn't. And didn't. The women were charged with and convicted of harming their own children in utero. Child neglect, abuse, murder, etc., is a crime. What confuses you about that?
I thought you realized there was a difference between a state’s Supreme Court & the Supreme Court of the United States?

Your own link states the “To date, the United States Supreme Court has declined to hear cases that raise questions about the constitutionality of such laws.”

Criminal Charges for Child Harm from Substance Use in Pregnancy | Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law
 
Old 05-08-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I thought you realized there was a difference between a state’s Supreme Court & the Supreme Court of the United States?
I do, but it sounds like you don't understand the difference.

Quote:
Your own link states the “To date, the United States Supreme Court has declined to hear cases that raise questions about the constitutionality of such laws.”

Criminal Charges for Child Harm from Substance Use in Pregnancy | Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law
That's because the Justices have determined that there aren't any questions about the constitutionality of such laws or convictions.
 
Old 05-08-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How is abiding by the US Constitution "judicial activism?" The Justices are doing what they've sworn to do in their oaths: support and defend the US Constitution.

Even RBG knew the 1973 Roe ruling had an inadequate Constitutional basis.
It was judicial activism when the SCOTUS ruled on Plessy v. Ferguson enabling & empowering the states to create & enforce Jim Crow laws.

The present SCOTUS does the same by shirking its responsibility to interpret the Constitution by giving it to the states to decide.

Shirking a responsibility is not “supporting & defending the Constitution”.

Shirking its responsibility in Plessy is one of the contributing factors that ultimately led to the American Civil War.

Justice Alito is employing the same airquote ‘logic’ of Plessy v. Ferguson by allowing the states to violate the individual rights of their people in any way their legislatures deem airquote ‘reasonable’ as the opinion put it in Plessy.

To “reasonably violate an individual’s right” is an oxymoronic statement.
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