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Old 09-04-2023, 08:22 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,643 posts, read 45,254,887 times
Reputation: 13884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
No longer. Banks can loan out whatever they feel is a good enough risk, and then get the necessary funds later.
From where? Banks can't create money. Only the Federal Reserve does that.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
26,290 posts, read 13,211,965 times
Reputation: 19803
This thread is depressing, but true. SS will collapse, even if both political parties agree to raise the age, cut benefits, & increase the earnings cap.

My mind keeps drifting off-topic to when this will occur...sorry OP....call it self-preservation...I'm not old enough ot get it yet, & want some of my cash back.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:25 AM
 
14,189 posts, read 5,743,687 times
Reputation: 8796
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
From where? Banks can't create money. Only the Federal Reserve does that.
And whenever the banks eff up, the Fed prints them their payback and the oligarchs all crack up at how well they rigged the game.

You want them doing that though, because if they didn't, all that saving/investing would go poof if the "tear down the Fed" dreams were ever realized, and that's a whole lot of folks past age 65 wondering where their next meal is coming from.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:27 AM
 
3,477 posts, read 2,218,467 times
Reputation: 5309
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
This thread is depressing, but true. SS will collapse, even if both political parties agree to raise the age, cut benefits, & increase the earnings cap.

My mind keeps drifting off-topic to when this will occur...sorry OP....call it self-preservation...I'm not old enough ot get it yet, & want some of my cash back.
SS's Office of the Chief Actuary said something to the effect of, if we eliminate the cap altogether, make all earnings subject to FICA, and leave the calculation metric as it currently exists, it would extend solvency by 40 years. That's probably optimistic, of course. Even if accurate, 40 years isn't schlit.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:32 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,643 posts, read 45,254,887 times
Reputation: 13884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And whenever the banks eff up, the Fed prints them their payback and the oligarchs all crack up at how well they rigged the game.

You want them doing that though, because if they didn't, all that saving/investing would go poof if the "tear down the Fed" dreams were ever realized, and that's a whole lot of folks past age 65 wondering where their next meal is coming from.
THAT'S where the system is broken. Bailing out banks that screw up at the public's expense. Excessive Federal Reserve money printing = inflation, which harms those who earn the least the most as it prices them OUT of daily necessities like homes and food.

And you're correct. If the Federal Reserve didn't bail out the banks, pretty much everyone would be abruptly plunged into abject poverty. So we're stuck with how this works.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,643 posts, read 45,254,887 times
Reputation: 13884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And whenever the banks eff up, the Fed prints them their payback and the oligarchs all crack up at how well they rigged the game.

You want them doing that though, because if they didn't, all that saving/investing would go poof if the "tear down the Fed" dreams were ever realized, and that's a whole lot of folks past age 65 wondering where their next meal is coming from.
I want to comment on that because very few realize the reality of the situation...

100 million US workers and retirees (or more) have, in aggregate, $35.4 trillion worth of investment assets in their pensions/retirement accounts. They absolutely DEPEND on corporations' profitability for their pension payouts and/or retirement draws both now and/or in the future.

https://www.ici.org/statistical-report/ret_23_q1

To put that amount in perspective, the ENTIRE S&P 500 has a total value of $37.6 trillion.
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,950 posts, read 26,676,618 times
Reputation: 25885
There is a relatively simple solution. For decades, the SS trust fund ran a huge surplus. That money was taken by congress and spent as part of the general fund, with nothing but IOUs in it's place. Those IOUs are in the form of bonds, to be repaid from the "general fund". But that is part of the problem-congress doesn't want to make cuts elsewhere to repay what they have taken. Worse, those bonds are issued at a lower rate of return (interest) than market rates, and far less than the average return on the stock market. Taxpayers aren't the problem, SS beneficiaries aren't-congress is! What has been done with OUR MONEY is criminal.

The solution is to get the money out of the hands of the swamp in DC and into the hands of those that paid into SS. Privatize the system, and set up individual accounts along the lines of IRAs, but with limits on when those funds can be touched-like a normal IRA. The 15.3% of everyone's income seized by the federal government in the form of SS taxes should be YOURS, invested in accounts owned by you and off-limits in any way to the government. And earning an average return of ~8%, not zero or a fraction of a percent. And the balance when you die should be yours to determine who it goes to-not some government bureaucrats!
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Old 09-04-2023, 08:49 AM
 
18,954 posts, read 8,583,239 times
Reputation: 4192
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
From where? Banks can't create money. Only the Federal Reserve does that.
Fractional reserve has been passe' for some time.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...make-loans.asp
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Old 09-04-2023, 09:02 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,643 posts, read 45,254,887 times
Reputation: 13884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Fractional reserve has been passe' for some time.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...make-loans.asp
Did you read the article? It implies banks are lending money based on loans counted as assets on their books. OK, all well and good, so far.

Now when push comes to shove, from WHERE does the bank get the money to FUND a loan that is based on other loans on their books being counted as assets? Where does the actual money come from to FUND the loan?

An example, I own my home outright (no mortgage) but I decide to sell. At closing, the buyer has taken out a mortgage and I get the cash proceeds for the sale of my home. Where does the cash to pay me at closing come from if the buyer's mortgage is based not on the bank's financial reserves but only on a bookkeeping entry?
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Old 09-04-2023, 09:05 AM
 
13,581 posts, read 7,544,103 times
Reputation: 10293
Republicans want to fix it by raising the Full Retierment Age (FRA) to 69 for anyone who plans on retiring 10 years from now or later.
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